The bigger picture.

[Oscar]

...says any number of other car drivers to you on your bike...

You really haven't been paying attention to what's going on have you?

1. When a car driver sees me, I'll have decent gear on...
2. I pay attention - I see "born again bikers" wobbling on their new Harleys, I see untrained youngsters on CBR's and I see that we're our own worst enemies.

[boomer]

So how many on here are prepared to consider why we find ourselves in the current situation that we do?

Will those who, in the past, have seen no problem with groups of motorcyclists treating public roads as racetracks, sit there scratching their heads wondering why we are being singled out or will they see this current ACC furore as a 'wake up call' to modify their behaviour?

Regardless of what degree of success we have from Tuesday's protest ride (and any subsequent protest action), if there is not a visible attempt to clean up our own backyard then we will find ourselves being targeted over and over again.

i blame Beyond, i already invoiced him as i can't sue 'im

[MSTRS:Me]

What's wrong with a bit of self imposed control?

Who else missed the irony here?

[davereid]

Say if we the motorcyclists win the war against ACC... Will there still be people riding extra cautiously trying not to put a bad hyped name on us motorcyclist at large. Or will they break back into old habits. Im just saying.

Win or lose I will still enjoy country rides in the sun, with the helmet in the top box, where it belongs...

Stop safety-ing my life out of existence...

[Dean]

Believe me, the message is strong.

Unfortunately, the cloth between many motorcyclists ears is flame retardant.

Hmm I like the way you perceive matters and your timing in bringing this to attention is superb.

But of all how you can have so many people hating you yet you keep on going sharing the message unconditionally.

[AD345]

1. When a car driver sees me, I'll have decent gear on...
2. I pay attention - I see "born again bikers" wobbling on their new Harleys, I see untrained youngsters on CBR's and I see that we're our own worst enemies.

So you haven't been paying attention.

The ACC levy issue is only marginally about motorcyclists. It's mostly about ideology: private insurance and the right to sue for liability versus public compensation and no recourse to litigation.

All you and Katman are doing is providing more fuel to the fire of debate as to wheher ACC should exist or not.

Having the debate is fine, that's how these things come and (hopefully not) go.

However - bleating on about levels of fault and blame whilst NOT having the balls or brains to simply come out and have a debate about the merits of ACC is, not to put too fine a point on it, stupid.

I'll type this quite slowly so you can keep up:

Tying the discussion about motorcyclist safety into the debate about ACC levies is completely self-defeating.

It's a zero-sum game.

if you continue to add to the existing perception that behaviours should be reflected in ACC contributions then it's game over. Pack up bikes - good night and thanks for playing cos we're done.

[Katman]

Stop safety-ing my life out of existence...

Seems preferable to you wishing your life out of existence.

[Toaster]

We are not being targeted because some riders ride somewhat quickly or at times recklessly.

Many of the crashes that make up govt statistics involve motoryclists riding completely within the law with other factors causing the crash....like unattentive drivers in cars.

The issue of exposure to a higher chance of injury is in the event of a crash is of course hard to argue against when its flesh and cordura or leather v metal cage protection.

The problem I have is the amount of the increase is unwarranted and extremely unfair in a system that is supposed to be a no fault scheme. Something the rest of the world is envious of. That envy will no doubt ecrease as we continue to slide towards privtisation and eventual lawsuits etc.

[Toaster]

But of all how you can have so many people hating you yet you keep on going sharing the message unconditionally.

Well seems he cant be that hated since he seem to have a reasonably high green rep level. Someone must agree with him now and then!

[quickbuck]

I have been for the last 25 years I have been riding, yet ACC haven't been doing their job of accident prevention on the roads or for motorcycling. Hell the only acc advert I saw was to try and justify the hikes...

All the drink driving and slow down and look before you cross the intersection aren't coming from ACC, when they should be part of it as well... most of these are Police and LTSA... where is ACC, its there main job is it not?

The Ride Right Courses, while ACC says they are good and support them... why are they not puting their money where their mouth is... why are they not recommending these courses should be part of getting your license. Why are they not sponsing these courses, instead of them the great guys that do run them in the weekends on their own time, basically for the love of motorcycling, make just enough money to cover the costs.

When was the last time you saw a bike awareness advert... we are one of the few countries that don't have them... and there are some great ones on Youtube...

Well, actually ACC do actually try to achieve all those things.
I attend reagonal meetings on a regular basis to come up with ideas for injury prevention etc.
There is aslo a Site you can visit...
It is a shame the funding is rather low though.....

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

There is aslo a Site you can visit...
It is a shame the funding is rather low though.....

all very well coming up with ideas... but they need to follow through with the funding and education, website is ok, but if no one knows its there then its a bit of a waste (yes i knew about that site)

[quickbuck]

all very well coming up with ideas... but they need to follow through with the funding and education, website is ok, but if no one knows its there then its a bit of a waste (yes i knew about that site)

Agree.

That is why I have actually invited myself onto the committee, as it became apparent our local meetings weren't actually doing much despite the best intentions of the members.
Got to love civilian committee meetings....
Want to add so much more here, but speaking out of school, and you never know who is watching!

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Got to love civilian committee meetings....

i know what you mean

Want to add so much more here, but speaking out of school, and you never know who is watching!

[MD]

Just a theory but I suspect there is a far simpler reason ACC has aimed it's cash demand at motorcyclists- best return for the least expenditure.

Just like any business wanting to increase revenue ACC looked for a solution that will bring in more cash while not requiring massive expenditure to do so. Specifically ACC don't want to have to create a raft of new Bureaucracies and infrastuctures to target any new "accident risk" groups.

You go for the easy option first. As a Group 'Road Using' Motorcyclists are the ideal target requiring the least expenditure to collect a levy. We already have to register our bikes- with the levy built in. We already have to display this rego evidence and the Police already do the monitoring for ACC- every roadside chat with a HP will see your licence and rego checked. Free labour for the ACC. Everything is in place..already, no new expenses.

Last weekend there were two mountaineering incidents involving a death and serious injuries to others. In the last two weeks there have been two light aircraft/microlight crashes. I'm sure ACC would like to go after these types and sport players and mountaineers etc But there is simply no mechanism in place to collect and police payments from these people. It's impractical and they know it. Imagine setting up procedures and employing people to do spot checks during rugby/football/hockey games etc across the country. Running on to a sports field with a clip board to check each player has paid an ACC levy! Who is going to climb Mt Cook to check everyone up there has paid their levy?

[Hitcher]

I agree with Katman. Let's all resolve to ride perfectly from this point forward. It's such a blindingly simple proposition that I'm surprised that somebody didn't think of it years ago.

Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya. Someone's crying lord, Kumbaya...