The bigger picture.

[Conquiztador]

I can not believe the crap in this thread. I am used to read it from Katman, but there are others starting to emerge. But clearly our money is used to achieve what the Nats are looking for: Propaganda and brainwashing. And sadly it is working.

You guys must have missed what is going on. So for you I will here clarify it:

- National Party tried last time they were in power to privatise ACC. They clearly think it is a brilliant idea. You are allowed to agree with them. I don't. They are now doing the same thing again, but have become a little wiser. Instead of grabbing the whole shaboodle by the balls they will split ACC in to bits and flog it off bit by bit. It is about trying to get the fractions who pay ACC to feel that as they do not participate in what is costing they should not pay for it, so levy the ones who do.
- This is not about bikers costing heaps (Motorcyclists $19,704 per claim, Car Occupants: $24,434 per claim).
- This is not about that there is heaps of us crashing (in 1986 there was over 4000 crashes recorded where a rider or pillion was injured/killed, in 2008 there was approx 1400)
- This is not about prevention and training. (Have anyone heard a ACC spokesperson or someone from Nats talking re increasing the ACC levy so that there will be more spent on stopping bikers from getting injured?)

This IS about politics and selling off ACC. Then you can squabble on here that "We" are responsible and "We" need to all have dayglow vests, indicate a minimum of 3 seconds before we turn and NOT EVER ride faster than the speedlimit. Even if we all start riding like Katman it will make no difference. But you keep on blaming "the fucking idiots who ride like dipshits" and the whispers in the corridors of power will be: "It is working! They are becoming divided".

Focus guys, focus!

[jeffs]

Interesting thread, you have a guy called Katman, who like a great conductor is deliberately keeping alive a thread for the purpose of entertainment. If Katmen was serious about changing peoples attitudes to ride with more care ( and i'm sure he thinks he is ). He would do so by getting people on his side, not driving a wedge between bikers at this important time. Instead he seems to be playing to a willing audience for maximum attention, by using short defamatory statements, at a time when most people are wound up and reeling for a fight.

I think its great that you all let him do this. It shows ACC to win, they don't have to do anything but let bikes fight amongst them self on public forums.

This is neither the time or the place to start pointing fingers at each other, rightly or wrongly. Unless you are doing so for pure entertainment.

Just don't respond to his threads, or just let him keep on playing you like a guitar.

[Reckless]

Interesting thread, you have a guy called Katman, who like a great conductor is deliberately keeping alive a thread for the purpose of entertainment. If Katmen was serious about changing peoples attitudes to ride with more care ( and i'm sure he thinks he is ). He would do so by getting people on his side, not driving a wedge between bikers at this important time. Instead he seems to be playing to a willing audience for maximum attention, by using short defamatory statements, at a time when most people are wound up and reeling for a fight.

I think its great that you all let him do this. It shows ACC to win, they don't have to do anything but let bikes fight amongst them self on public forums.

This is neither the time or the place to start pointing fingers at each other, rightly or wrongly. Unless you are doing so for pure entertainment.

Just don't respond to his threads, or just let him keep on playing you like a guitar.

Amen brother!! I've been on all night working, KB up on my third monitor. I said the same thing way back on page 2. Said something similar to you here (but not as diplomatically LOL!). Refused to get drawn in by the deliberate taunt here and haven't posted till now!

Just wanted to prove your theory jeffs, it is all very predictable isn't it LOL!!! Fun some days though!

[davereid]

I can not believe the crap in this thread. I am used to read it from Katman, but there are others starting to emerge. But clearly our money is used to achieve what the Nats are looking for: Propaganda and brainwashing. And sadly it is working.

That was the purpose of my somewhat tongue in cheek reference to riding without a helmet.

Over time, propaganda really works, thats why they use it.

Around 45 years ago, it was common so see a motorcyclist pootling around without a helmet. We were told helmets would save lives, so we accepted their mandatory wearing, first for 50+, then all speeds.

The hype never really matched the facts. Deaths from head injuries remained about the same, and within 10 years we had opened two spinal units to cope with the spinal injuries.

But, 45 years later, a new generation of bikers exists, that it so overwhelmed by the magic of the helmet, that they cant really conceptualise riding without one. They know they need it and stepping out the door without one is clearly a death wish.

This is the same, exept now the target is the motorcycle full-stop.

Make it hard to get a licence (for safey reasons.)

Make it expensive to register (safety.)

Get a bit of biker support, cos its for your own good.

Job done.

In 40 years time, no sane individual would go near the death trap that a motorcycle is.

How parents every let their kids rid 'em I'll never know !

[Viscount Montgomery]

As far as I'm concerned it's all a combination of dick-head bikers on the road and slimy arsehole polititians. Remember just a few years ago, the ACC fund was an overflowing cess-pit of money. There was so much unused cash in the slushfund that the bastards didn't know what to do with it. Fast forward to today and it's apparently now an empty pit. Where the fuck did all that money go?

Sleazeballs Birch and Cullen frittered it all away with mis-management, stupidity and greed. Invested with equally slimy fly-by-night finance companies run by greasy greedy bastard wide-boys. Suddenly fucken billions disappeared and wiped overnight with a stroke of a pen.

None of these arseholes are held accountable. Why the fuck should they worry about it. They got away with raping and pillaging the publics money. They still kept their beemers and audis, gold cuff-links, helicopters and mansions in Remuera.

The slates been wiped clean. bring on the private insurance circus now. The wide-boys will get their slimy tendrils on your money again, quicker than you can blink. Only this time they'll be making three times the profit...

[MSTRS:Me]

Only one thing is absolutely true in this whole subject...
HIDDEN AGENDAS.
You all know how that works...show them this, whilst really doing that.
Hard to fight that when it's on all sides, and when 'some of us' are doing the exact same thing...well, ask yourself.
Fighting amongst ourselves will gain nothing but a win for THEM.
The Nazis found that fighting on too many fronts was a bad idea. Learn from that, guys.
No matter what some might see as the reason/s we find ourselves in this position, the end result of levy hikes is not good for the use/sport of motorcycles. We can't fix it all overnight. Right now we need to focus on overturning the levy hikes, and later look at ways to (further) reduce the accident stats.

[Katman]

This is neither the time or the place to start pointing fingers at each other, rightly or wrongly. Unless you are doing so for pure entertainment.

Indeed.

How rude of ACC to gate crash my party.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

As far as I'm concerned it's all a combination of dick-head bikers on the road and slimy arsehole polititians. Remember just a few years ago, the ACC fund was an overflowing cess-pit of money. There was so much unused cash in the slushfund that the bastards didn't know what to do with it. Fast forward to today and it's apparently now an empty pit. Where the fuck did all that money go?

I don't call having a 11 billion dollars in the bank going broke and they banked 0.7 billion, 700 million last year, to any business owner thats a profit...

it still is making money... more than enough to cover all costs for now and the future... no change is required

[vifferman]

Steady on Les - it you truly think I'm against Motorcycling you are clearly a couple short of a six pack.

It would be easy to draw that conclusion. While I understand what you're trying to do, the overall tone of your posts seems to be anti-motorcyclists. Perhaps you think that someone has to tell the 'truth' and be a martyr for the cause, and if people revile you for it, then so be it. Your message would certainly be more effective (and your campaign more fruitful) if you didn't use it to bludgeon and alienate your brethren.

[MSTRS:Me]

I don't call having a 11 billion dollars in the bank going broke and they banked 0.7 billion, 700 million last year, to any business owner thats a profit...

it still is making money... more than enough to cover all costs for now and the future... no change is required

Nope. It was much better than that. They have $1B more in the pot AFTER all payouts, AND paid $700M to govt as a 'dividend' (read; TAX)

[Katman]

Your message would certainly be more effective (and your campaign more fruitful) if you didn't use it to bludgeon and alienate your brethren.

(And here was me thinking I'd toned down my approach).:slap:

It doesn't matter what condiments you dress it up with, a shit sandwich is always going to taste like shit.

[Conquiztador]

Nope. It was much better than that. They have $1B more in the pot AFTER all payouts, AND paid $700M to govt as a 'dividend' (read; TAX)

It was pointed out to Craig Foss (at the HB BIKEOI), he tried to tell us that you can have that kind of money but still be broke... Then he changed subject to trying to get support in getting private insurers to cover ACC. He was not hard to read. The agenda is there.

[MSTRS:Me]

It was pointed out to Craig Foss (at the HB BIKEOI), he tried to tell us that you can have that kind of money but still be broke... Then he changed subject to trying to get support in getting private insurers to cover ACC. He was not hard to read. The agenda is there.

He did. And I doubt that he left with any idea that we supported that move.

[oldrider]

It would be easy to draw that conclusion. While I understand what you're trying to do, the overall tone of your posts seems to be anti-motorcyclists. Perhaps you think that someone has to tell the 'truth' and be a martyr for the cause, and if people revile you for it, then so be it. Your message would certainly be more effective (and your campaign more fruitful) if you didn't use it to bludgeon and alienate your brethren.

How many times do you have to be told Katman, you are as bad as those that you condemn!

[vifferman]

(And here was me thinking I'd toned down my approach).:slap:

The point is, while your intentions are good, and often the core of your message is too, it often reads like you're just trying to pick a fight or piss people off. Do you really want to effect change, and cause a reduction in the motorcyclist road toll and bring about a change of attitude amongst bikers? If so, then perhaps some effort directed toward a little more diplomacy would aid your cause. Perhaps you could put the brick in a sock before bashing people with it? I know you're a biker and on the side of bikers, just anti the stupid things that people do, but it too often sounds like you're attacking your fellow bikers rather than the poor attitudes and actions many of us cling to. A little more cunnning and psychology wouldn't go amiss.
Having said that, there are many recidivists and chronically stupid people amongst us, and they are sadly perhaps a lost cause. You can't save everyone from themselves.

Anyway - don't give up. I guess if even one person 'gets it' then that makes it worthwhile.