Knee-down trainer frame?

[imdying]

You have one Steve, it's called a Daytona!

[CookMySock]

@paddy, many thanks for your constructive input. Yes I don't know what I would "learn" from it, but I think it might change the way my brain processes things.

Academic perspective, yes, well we are playing with things of the motorcycle related category, and that is always going to be interesting.

There are two methods I am thinking of.

1.) where the bike is supported at a constant angle by a rigid but castoring wheel. The bike sits on its newly acquired third wheel even when parked, and the frame is used exclusively to allow the rider to get used to the posture. The bike won't handle normally until they get a good dose of speed on.

2.) where the arm has some scraper on it that touches the ground but does not support the bike and makes some sound the rider can use to indicate their angle of lean while they safely acclimatise their brain to it. The bike is simply ridden around in some manner until the scraper makes its noise, and then the indicator angle is increased more and more, all the while reassuring the rider. The bike has a frame on each side, and otherwise is ridden normally.

There are a couple of carparks nearby. We haven't asked, but if we tell them what we're doing, and offer a chance to try it, I bet they will be really keen.

I wonder if a better project would be to figure out how protected you could make a GN125. No lights, oggy knobs, crash bars, bark busters....

Well pretty much thats what the comet 250 is, but just a better one than the GN125. Yeah I could crashframe it etc, but I don't know that we would be going that hardcore with it.. Just a bit of kneescrapin'.

Would putting the bike into a frame to support it when tipped over that far really give me the confidence to tip it that far when not in the frame?

It is more about getting the rider used to the posture. After that there is less fear associated with the manoevre.

Lets make no bones about it - it's all in the riders' head. We are gently easing the rider into something that takes a lot of willpower to otherwise achieve. Experienced riders get it. Newbies don't. and often never will. My learner crew will get it - thats my task.

Steve

[F5 Dave]

Yeah I gotta say I don't get it either. What are you trying to teach? Racing? 'cause there's no way you need to hang off on the road that much & if there's time to do that in an emergency there was time to avoid what the problem was anyway.

What you are more likely to promote is newbies hanging off ridiculously on the road in a position that they can't recover from if an emergency comes up. That is a move for the track where you have done the same corner lap after lap & there are no cars coming the other way or unexpected road debris. I've gone through 1/2doz kneesliders on each side, but I've never dragged my knee on the road or even got close.

The powersliding rig, now that could be interesting, but a dirtbike on mud will get you most of the way there with some respect that it's going to land you on yer arse from time to time.

& I'm with Koba with the idea that if you really must, just get a small bike with some decent tyres & a low seat.

[AllanB]

Don't get it.

It's a interesting contraption and I'd like a go just for FUN.

For road riding you should never be going that fast that you actually NEED to get your knee down (I'm thinking of getting ACC to sponsor that comment).

And on the track you'll progressively get faster and 'get your knee down' as experience and speed increase.

I'd be more worried about people trying that device then getting cocky and throwing the bike over without the mechanics to save them. Plus the whole point of getting off the seat and the consequent knee-down is to keep the bike as upright as possible so the tyre has more contact and can be accelerated out earlier.

If you really want to get your knee down, go to the track and practice.

I like watching people on group rides - lots of riders in front of me with their knees cocked way out and arse crack balanced on the edge of the seat on a mild corner, while I cruise around after them with my arse firmly planted in the middle of the seat at the same speed ........

Maybe there is something wrong with me for not being 'knee-down' obsessed? Do I require therapy? Maybe a deep tissue massage would help?

[CookMySock]

I guess we're just having fun, more than really "teaching" anything - kneedown is a fun thing to be able to do. I more expected people might join in, than belittle the idea, or persuade the OP otherwise, but hey on KB it's all about who else is right, rather than whether anyone is having fun with anything. The end result though, is no one has fun as any constructive prospect gets rudely pulled to pieces.

Honestly, I did think for a second that wouldnt happen.

Steve

[The Pastor]

Hey make a welder using an lpg tank and go for it.

[wysper]

Isn't this a similar idea to the BMW Car driving school where they have rigs that simulate loss of traction/control?

I think it would be interesting to know how far a bike could lean and still retain control. I know that there is the learn on the track brigade. But not everyone wants to go on the track.

I will most likely never get my knee down, never push any bike I own anywhere near its limits, but I would still be interested in finding out in a safe way.

It would be interesting as part of an advanced rider training course.

[I GS 1]

One thing you would have to watch is once it touches, you have a third point carrying some weight and this will reduce the downforce/grip of the other two points, the tyres. The old airhead beemers had a habit of the tappet covers touching and when they did, you would get a fright as either front or back tyre would very suddenly loose grip (the smoother the road, the less the problem) (and it didn't take much before the oil would start dripping through). On them, toe sticking out at quite an angle would give you some idea of how far down/close to touching you were)

[Katman]

I more expected people might join in, than belittle the idea, or persuade the OP otherwise, but hey on KB it's all about who else is right, rather than whether anyone is having fun with anything.

I'm signing up with the belittling team.

[F5 Dave]

I guess we're just having fun, more than really "teaching" anything . . .

ok so if you were honest about it in the first place it would have attracted a lot less "Why"

but posting this didn't help;

. . .
It is more about getting the rider used to the posture. After that there is less fear associated with the manoevre.

Lets make no bones about it - it's all in the riders' head. We are gently easing the rider into something that takes a lot of willpower to otherwise achieve. Experienced riders get it. Newbies don't. and often never will. My learner crew will get it - thats my task.

Steve

People get concerned that new riders will get encouraged into things. If it's a bunch of mates in an unused carpark then why not?

(well the "why not"? is 'cause they should go find a CB125 under a tree & go out & learn)

[Henk]

These knee down trainers are already widely available, they're called buckets.

[Gubb]

I guess we're just having fun, more than really "teaching" anything - kneedown is a fun thing to be able to do. I more expected people might join in, than belittle the idea, or persuade the OP otherwise, but hey on KB it's all about who else is right, rather than whether anyone is having fun with anything. The end result though, is no one has fun as any constructive prospect gets rudely pulled to pieces.

Honestly, I did think for a second that wouldnt happen.

Steve

I'm pretty sure that there's a fair amount of people on this thread who's day you have brightened with your stunning ideas.

[roadracingoldfart]

Yeah I gotta say I don't get it either. What are you trying to teach? Racing? 'cause there's no way you need to hang off on the road that much
& I'm with Koba with the idea that if you really must, just get a small bike with some decent tyres & a low seat.

I dont get it either........
Hell ive raced for over 27 years and i had to lend my knee sliders to Frenchy at round 5 VMCC as he wore his out. It was the first time my sliders have ever been on the ground and yet ive won several titles and done 6 hour races etc . Im far from slow because of it.

As for Kobas idea, sounds awesome.


Paul.

[Cr1MiNaL]

I'm pretty sure that thing is from the Californian SBK school, and its more for learning to control powerslides.

Now it's worth investing in one of these to learn powerslides... for "knee down" as someone suggested white boots improve your chances significantly as I have discovered for myself. cost $459

[Jantar]

I have worn tyres right to the edge. I have dragged various parts of my bike on the road. I have never, repeat never, touched a knee while riding on the road, and only once on the race track.

I hope you tell anyone who you may be teaching just what your username is. Most appropriate.