Proposed new ACC campaign association - a new direction

[bogan]

How? Will i even be able to afford the lawyer who'll help me sue the guy with no money???

exactly, and the thing is, a lot of incidents are just accidents, genuine mistakes, is there really any fault that needs to be placed in such cases?

[FastBikeGear]

but ACC isnt insurance, you dont need to pay for cover for specific things, the money is gathered through levies.

Bogan, thanks for the really thought provoking discussion on this. Presently we do pay ACC discrete premiums to cover us for specific things, We have different points of levy collection and these corrollate to the separate accounts ACC already runs for each type of coverage.

No ACC isn't 'insurance' by the narrow definition that you and I accept. But Nick Smith empahtically says it is Insurance and I want it to be, because it is to our advantage if it is insurance. Nick and John Key are looking for our support to help them change ACC to an Insurance company and I say lets support them wholeheartedly and then some.

The point i was making is that what goes around comes around, some pay more hear and claim more there, others the opposite, some dont pay much and claim lots, some pay lots and dont claim much.

"What goes around does comes around". Saying it simply doesn't make this statement true.

[bogan]

Bogan, thanks for the really thought provoking discussion on this. Presently we do pay ACC discrete premiums to cover us for specific things, We have different points of of levy collection and these corrollate to the separate accounts ACC already runs for each type of coverage.

All good, is one of the most on track ACC threads in a while!

Yes we do, but they are very general accounts, road users, employees, employers, other (i think they are). These seem to be set up to collect levies which are affordable to the individual, while still being able to cover the whole claims budget for each account. I like the idea of this, as risk based levies would most likely have prevented me from getting into road riding at all simply because the insurance would be too expensive as a learner rider and student, im sure the sam applies to other activities and people, ACC give us freedom to do more when we are young and earning less, then pay for it in middle age while earning more.

"What goes around does comes around". Saying it simply doesn't make this statement true.

yeh, but i illustrated that subsidisation went both ways between the accounts as well i think

[FastBikeGear]

How? Will i even be able to afford the lawyer who'll help me sue the guy with no money???

You can employ a lawyer on a pro rata basis where if he thinks your case is worthy, he takes it on for a percentage of the return. When he sues them he also sues them for the cost of the legal action so you don't miss out.

[FastBikeGear]

I like the idea of this, as risk based levies would most likely have prevented me from getting into road riding at all simply because the insurance would be too expensive as a learner rider and student.

Motorcyclists have been paying more ACC than car drivers for years.

ACC give us freedom to do more when we are young and earning less, then pay for it in middle age while earning more.

Great point well made.

yeh, but i illustrated that subsidisation went both ways between the accounts as well i think

Give me an example of the subsidisaton going each way then?

Bogan are you ready to become a member of P.A.I.N (Privatise ACC Insurance Now) yet?

[Squiggles]

I think most who want it privatised just dont want to pay a cent (and wont get private insurance)... they'll concern themself with the consequences after an incident and hope they can sue another broke new zealander...

[bogan]

Motorcyclists have been paying more ACC than car drivers for years.

yeh, I dont think we should, same ACC account, same rate!

Give me an example of the subsidisaton going each way then?

the one you gave of the motor vehicle account paying for income compensation of a high earner after he has an accident on the road. And the one i gave of a student having an accident at university and being paid from the earners account though the student only pays into the motor account.

Bogan are you ready to become a member of P.A.I.N (Privatise ACC Insurance Now) yet?

I am not

[Mully]

exactly, and the thing is, a lot of incidents are just accidents, genuine mistakes, is there really any fault that needs to be placed in such cases?

This is what bothers me about privatisation. The only people who will make money are the lawyers.

And if you have a crash, you'll get sued by everybody in the car cos the passengers will all have "whiplash" and "emotional harm" and "hurt and humiliation"

And then the councils (or Transit) will be sued cos the roads are substandard and contributed to the crash - which means they'll need more cash to insure themselves, which they'll tear from the hands of ratepayers who are already hurting cos the rat-faced bastards keep increasing the "ratable" value of houses (and therefore the rates take) even when you are deafened by the whistling of house prices dropping around you.

*breathe* (sorry).

Or a kid will ride his pushbike into another kid, causing the "innocent" kid to have whiplash and emotional harm, so the parents of the "guilty" kid will get sued......

Where would it end?

Do we really want to be a mini-America in this regard?

[Squiggles]

if he thinks your case is worthy

BS, if he thinks theres any money in it... should i make a mistake what the hell will you manage to get out of me? I have pretty much nothing but intellectual property

[FastBikeGear]

BS, if he thinks theres any money in it... should i make a mistake what the hell will you manage to get out of me? I have pretty much nothing but intellectual property

Yes you have the right definition of worthy.

Please note than just as in Australia third party insurance will be compulsory so they won't have any trouble getting the money out of your insurance company. Of course you might want to defend it - because if you are deemed at fault you will loose your excess, your no claim bonus and your premiums are likely to go up next year.

Squiggles get off the fence will you be joining P.A.I.N. or not?

[Squiggles]

Yes you have the right definition of worthy.

Please note than just as in Australia third party insurance will be compulsory so they won't have any trouble getting the money out of your insurance company. Of course you might want to defend it - because if you are deemed at fault you will loose your excess, your no claim bonus and yourpremiums are likely to go up next year.

Squiggles get off the fence will you be joining P.A.I.N. or not?

You do realise that in Victoria with TAC (Compulsory 3rd party insurance) its costly and with what is currently a $50 extra if you're on a bike...

also note clauses such as that mentioned below... good wiggle room to get out of a claim

Under Victorian transport law you cannot make a compensation claim for damages unless you have suffered a 'serious injury', which is typically defined as a level of permanent impairment of 30% or more.

[davereid]

ACC is the way to go.

'Cos I wont pay it, I'll save the money to pay the fines should I ever be caught. 20,000 km last year without being checked...

But with ACC, I'm still 100% covered - Way to go eh !

[FastBikeGear]

BS, if he thinks theres any money in it... should i make a mistake what the hell will you manage to get out of me? I have pretty much nothing but intellectual property

In Australia it is an offence to operate a motor vehicle without thrid party insurance. I am proposing the same deal here. So therefore if you make a mistake I or my insurance company will sue your arse off. And yes the lawyers will make some money out of the process.

[FastBikeGear]

yeh, I dont think we should, same ACC account, same rate!

Nice idea. But what's your confidence level on achieving this?

the one you gave of the motor vehicle account paying for income compensation of a high earner after he has an accident on the road. And the one i gave of a student having an accident at university and being paid from the earners account though the student only pays into the motor account.

No but you will be paying into the earners account once you get a job. What's the point of having separate accounts if you are going to treat them as one account?

[FastBikeGear]

ACC is the way to go.

'Cos I wont pay it, I'll save the money to pay the fines should I ever be caught. 20,000 km last year without being checked...

But with ACC, I'm still 100% covered - Way to go eh !

Well you might profit from this but you might not.

Once the police realise their is a money earner in checking registrations on bikes what do ou think will happen?

What's the bet that if you injure yourself in a bike accident and you don't have a registration, they will change it in the very near future so that you don't get ERC.

Of course since I and all the other retired and unemployed people don't qualify for ERC anyway your plan will work for us.