Rear suspension sag?

[NordieBoy]

Get a copy of "Dual Sport Suspension" by Ned Suesse (Neduro) & James Siddall (Super Plush Suspension).

[Padmei]

Is it possible to get more travel out of suspension without raising seat height? I had a look under gonzo & wondered how other bikes get longer travel with a linkage setup.

If we're comparing to mountain bikes the KLR, Dr etc have a 4 bar linkage such as Giant, Specialised etc, KTM, I take it, have their shock less linkages such as like my Santa Cruz?

Has anyone succesfully got more rear travel without putting their heads above the clouds?

Any helpful links would be appreciated

BTW hows the ricor rear going Mark?

[marks]

BTW hows the ricor rear going Mark?

its not

I spent the day following my son around the Mungatooks on trail bikes.

I'll take it somewhere lumpy next weekend and give it a decent test out

[Padmei]

What brand fork oil did you use with your intimators?

[marks]

What brand fork oil did you use with your intimators?

Spectro 5W

did you check you had the right size iniminators?

[Padmei]

Yep just gonna change the oil & go from there. Now back to the scheduled programme.

[warewolf]

Is it possible to get more travel out of suspension without raising seat height? I had a look under gonzo & wondered how other bikes get longer travel with a linkage setup.

If we're comparing to mountain bikes the KLR, Dr etc have a 4 bar linkage such as Giant, Specialised etc, KTM, I take it, have their shock less linkages such as like my Santa Cruz?

In a word... no. The only way you'll get more travel is by extending the wheels down (lengthening the forks and the stroke of the shock) because there's no room to extend upwards - the wheels will hit the guards and the bash plate will deck out at full compression.

The linkages don't really have much bearing on the travel, in the sense that they might limit or extend how much you can have - they don't. They really achieve two things: give you a rising rate on the spring force so that the suspension firms up as it moves through its stroke (this is what lowering links corrupt), and multiplies the shock travel vs axle travel - usually at around 1:3 - so you can have a smaller shock.

btw the KTM's have linkages... that is one of the differences between the gentle LC4 (& LC8) and the hard-out off-road bikes which don't. And after ten years of trying to get the PDS system to work really well, the latest KTM has linkages again.

[Woodman]

I seen a thread somewhere where a guy put a linkless set up on his klr. It was not straight forward apparently. The raising link I got on mine has certainly stopped the rear from bottoming out nearly as much, and also I have added more dampening since fitting it so the ride is a bit plusher too.e.g. less pogo stick like. But the bike does sit about an inch higher so is quite tallish now.

[marks]

But the bike does sit about an inch higher so is quite tallish now.

it seems to need it though

the biggest problem I have with mine is smacking the under bits into things when the suspension fully compresses

I'm hoping the more controlled rikor bits will reduce the 'blow through the suspension travel - bang - something else underneath breaks' stuff

maybe I should stay away from the triples only do single backflips

[cooneyr]

....btw the KTM's have linkages... that is one of the differences between the gentle LC4 (& LC8) and the hard-out off-road bikes which don't. And after ten years of trying to get the PDS system to work really well, the latest KTM has linkages again.

psssst - the LC8's have PDS shocks.

This is all interesting reading. I would have though that my 950 S has too soft fork springs cause I've bottomed out the front more than once. Got wifey to help me check sag etc the other day and found that the both front and rear sag's are pretty damn close given my weight (using 15% 30% for Static Dynamic). Might have to try more compression damping for the front?

I do know that the shock's rebound damping is excessive though - it has a tendency to pack down over corriguations - couple of clicks less makes a noticable +ve difference but I must try less damping. My biggest problem is the tendency to lock up the rear wheel under brakes. I'm guessing that less rebound damping would help with this as well but I'm not totally sure. Any advise on this?

Cheers R

[warewolf]

psssst - the LC8's have PDS shocks.

Oops, fixed above.

This is all interesting reading. I would have though that my 950 S has too soft fork springs cause I've bottomed out the front more than once. Got wifey to help me check sag etc the other day and found that the both front and rear sag's are pretty damn close given my weight (using 15% 30% for Static Dynamic). Might have to try more compression damping for the front?

A few more clicks of compression damping, or add some oil. The other thing to remember is that you probably should bottom out the suspension sometimes - gently and controlled, that is - because if you aren't, you aren't using your suspension to its best.

btw what numbers do KTM suggest in the book? You may find more specific values for your kit, esp if they use top-out springs, and the PDS. I know on the SX/XC KTMs the PDS is renowned for being very sensitive to preload (like KTM quote 15mm range not 30mm, and experienced tuners say only 3mm ).

I do know that the shock's rebound damping is excessive though - it has a tendency to pack down over corriguations - couple of clicks less makes a noticable +ve difference but I must try less damping. My biggest problem is the tendency to lock up the rear wheel under brakes. I'm guessing that less rebound damping would help with this as well but I'm not totally sure. Any advise on this?

Definitely back off the rebound damping ASAP!!! Dr Robert cites excessive rebound as a #1 cause of otherwise inexplicable crashes (road/track presumably). IIRC he says ppl tend to set the rebound a couple of clicks too hard - so set it to where you are happy, then back off a bit. It should feel a little too plush & loose not super firm.

Locking up under brakes can mean the wheel isn't rebounding fast enough to stay on the ground. Or you just don't get along with sharp brakes - lower the pedal, and/or change sintered pads to organics, the latter having less bite more feel.

Have a dig around on the net, there are lots of helpful articles about dialling in the suspension, what to change for various problems. I haven't seen the dual-sport one Nordie suggests, but want to.

And unfortunately, with us living in the major compromise world of adventure where we face a massive variety of conditions, it may be impossible to get the suspension working optimally across all conditions. So like changing tyre pressures for seal/dirt, you may need to have suspension settings for seal/dirt. I do that for the 640A usually by riding from one to the other and noticing the suspension needs a tweak and click here or there improves things dramatically.

[Padmei]

You have to admit it is an interesting field for trial & error.

I very rarely use my back brake as it locks up very very quickly. I'm wondering if playing around with rebound will change that.

[marks]

You have to admit it is an interesting field for trial & error.

I very rarely use my back brake as it locks up very very quickly. I'm wondering if playing around with rebound will change that.

getting your iniminators working properly will help heaps with back brake lockups as it reduces weight transfer to the front when the forks blow through their stroke with chronic brake dive. (this assumes you use your front and rear at the same time)

[marks]

finally got around to measuring the settings properly...

185mm total tavel
big sag = 25mm = 13%
rider & bike sag 75mm = 40%

sounds like it needs a bit more preload? - but I'll ride it for a bit and see how it goes

[NordieBoy]

finally got around to measuring the settings properly...

185mm total tavel
big sag = 25mm = 13%
rider & bike sag 75mm = 40%

sounds like it needs a bit more preload? - but I'll ride it for a bit and see how it goes

Sounds like the spring may be a bit strong solo but should be about perfect with a bit of gear on the back.