Wellington Parking - They are about to clamp down on bike parking

[Chocolate Boy]

Since this thread stared:

* I am working to reinstate the College Street motorcycle park.

How is the reinstating of the motorcycle park in College St progressing? I contacted the council and was told that in the work that was done to expand Moore Wilsons, a contractor mistakenly removed the motorbike park.
So a) how does that get to happen? Didn't the contractor look at the plans properly?
b) why doesn't the council get the contractor (at the contractors expense) to fix their cock-up?
c) is Moore Wilsons business expansion of greater importance than reinstating the parking area?

Cheers to that contractor for making it just that little bit more difficult for us.

[Jon Visser]

So when I'm parked in one of those spaces (with my car or my bike) how do I get to know when the council might, at its discretion, ticket me for being parked illegally?

If in doubt, follow the instructions on the sign.

People typically learn about this rule when they study the Road Code just before sitting their drivers' licence test, but most forget the detail after a while. Just like other details such as minimum following distances, maximum tow rope lengths, speeds past school buses and accidents, legal hours of darkness etc. I'm hoping my reminder may assist a few people.

[Jon Visser]

How is the reinstating of the motorcycle park in College St progressing? I contacted the council and was told that in the work that was done to expand Moore Wilsons, a contractor mistakenly removed the motorbike park.
So a) how does that get to happen? Didn't the contractor look at the plans properly?
b) why doesn't the council get the contractor (at the contractors expense) to fix their cock-up?
c) is Moore Wilsons business expansion of greater importance than reinstating the parking area?

Cheers to that contractor for making it just that little bit more difficult for us.

This has nothing to do with Moore Wilsons. I understand that someone put in a new driveway to some apartments and the vehicle crossing is now where the motorcycle park used to be. This new driveway should not have been approved by the Council's vehicle crossing engineers without the reallocation of the motorcycle parks. Therefore we now need to relocate them the hard way (i.e. through a new traffic resolution) expected to go before Councillors in March 2010.

[Badjelly]

So when I'm parked in one of those spaces (with my car or my bike) how do I get to know when the council might, at its discretion, ticket me for being parked illegally?

If in doubt, follow the instructions on the sign.

It's the "On Sundays at our discretion" that bothers me. Do I, or do I not, run the risk of receiving a ticket for parking in a site marked (say) "Loading Zone, Goods Vehicles Only" on a Sunday?

[Jon Visser]

It's the "On Sundays at our discretion" that bothers me. Do I, or do I not, run the risk of receiving a ticket for parking in a site marked (say) "Loading Zone, Goods Vehicles Only" on a Sunday?

As I said, if in doubt, don't park there. If you have a specific location and time in mind, the best thing would be to call Parkwise on (04) 910 3444 and get them to confirm whether they will issue a ticket for that location, time and type of vehicle or not. If they say it is OK, I suggest you get the response in writing (e.g. as an e-mail) in case you do ever get a ticket, and you can then produce their response with the ticket when you ask for it to be waived.

If we did change our approach to Sunday parking enforcement, this would be quite widely consulted on and advertised and I'd like to think that if you did it regularly you would at least get a caution before you got a ticket (i.e. same as what we have just done for the current motorcycle parking campaign).

[Badjelly]

As I said, if in doubt, don't park there. If you have a specific location and time in mind, the best thing would be to call Parkwise on (04) 910 3444 and get them to confirm whether they will issue a ticket for that location, time and type of vehicle or not. If they say it is OK, I suggest you get the response in writing (e.g. as an e-mail) in case you do ever get a ticket, and you can then produce their response with the ticket when you ask for it to be waived.

If we did change our approach to Sunday parking enforcement, this would be quite widely consulted on and advertised and I'd like to think that if you did it regularly you would at least get a caution before you got a ticket (i.e. same as what we have just done for the current motorcycle parking campaign).

That's a lot of bother to go through and it leaves the majority of the population with no idea when they can park in normally-restricted areas. (Most of them don't know what the Road Code says, or that it's changed in the last few years.)

How about, if WCC is happy for a specific parking restriction to be waived on Sundays, writing that on the sign? Then we all know where we stand.

But I will phone Parkwise and talk with them.

[Chocolate Boy]

This has nothing to do with Moore Wilsons. I understand that someone put in a new driveway to some apartments and the vehicle crossing is now where the motorcycle park used to be. This new driveway should not have been approved by the Council's vehicle crossing engineers without the reallocation of the motorcycle parks. Therefore we now need to relocate them the hard way (i.e. through a new traffic resolution) expected to go before Councillors in March 2010.

So how did this happen? Particularly given the current increased attention to the limited number of motorcycle parks. As you say - it should not have - therefore where does the fault lie within the system and/or individually?
Seems to me that someone has cocked up, maybe by not reading some plans correctly, and now we suffer the consequence of a decrease in motorcycle parks for about 5 months in total. Great management skills in the council!

Please investigate how this happened and advise of the outcome so we can be assured it won't happen again and take another chunk out of the already insufficient number of motorcycle parks.

[atothek]

have seen a few tickets on bikes today. one scooter on the footpath right next to the hunter st bike park has a ticket tucked into the gap between the throttle and the controls. this is leaving a bit of a bad taste in my mouth as most bikes park sensibly - greys st was getting a bit out of hand but even then most of the ones not in the bike park were tucked away. if the council allows discretion and a grey area on for sunday parking why can't the same leniency be shown to bikes/scooters parked sensibly for a short period. i've never seen a bike get in the way of any pedestrian and i walk to work every day right past all the spots Jon has said are trouble areas - Boulcott, Greys. I have also seen blind people navigate their way past thse bikes without any issues. i think that common sense should rule and bikes parked out of the way not causing a problem should not be ticketed. it doesn't need to be black and white as is the case with sunday parking.

[Jon Visser]

Re: College Street:

So how did this happen?

As I said, and I do apologise on behalf of the Council in this matter, the vehicle crossing engineer that approved this did not take the motorcycle park into due consideration. This should have been run past our traffic engineers who would have arranged for the bay to be relocated when the road works were completed. We will dicuss this with the vehicle crossing engineers (who work for our Building Consents team, not the roading team).

[Chocolate Boy]

Re: College Street:


As I said, and I do apologise on behalf of the Council in this matter, the vehicle crossing engineer that approved this did not take the motorcycle park into due consideration. This should have been run past our traffic engineers who would have arranged for the bay to be relocated when the road works were completed. We will dicuss this with the vehicle crossing engineers (who work for our Building Consents team, not the roading team).

Well that's park of an answer, but exactly how did the crossing engineer manage to not give due consideration to the motorcycle park? Why did they not check with the traffic engineers? How do the crossing engineers manage to fail to communicate with the roading team when the two are so closely connected?

Oh and re your comment about the driveway being for access to apartments - the place where the motorcycle park was is exactly where the entrance to Moore Wilsons is. The driveway there only gives access to Moore Wilsons - it does not provide any drive-in access to any apartments. You can check this on google maps using street view (because they have kind of old pics there) - it shows the motorcycle park was immediately to the right of the Moore Wilsons car park ramp. That area is now an entry into Moore Wilsons, not an apartment parking area in sight.

So therefore it would seem that the answer is simple - put the motorcycle park back where it was, problem solved. Moore Wilsons will lose their accessway, but then if the crossing engineer had done their job properly Moore Wilsons shouldn't have got an access there anyway.

But I suppose you'll say that rather than just put it back it has to go through the due process, taking up time and resources that could have been used elsewhere. Nice work by the crossing engineer - what happened to them? Any reprimand? Or do they just get to carry on business as usual putting in crossings without talking to other departments?

[Hawkeye]

Well that's park of an answer, but exactly how did the crossing engineer manage to not give due consideration to the motorcycle park? Why did they not check with the traffic engineers? How do the crossing engineers manage to fail to communicate with the roading team when the two are so closely connected?

Oh and re your comment about the driveway being for access to apartments - the place where the motorcycle park was is exactly where the entrance to Moore Wilsons is. The driveway there only gives access to Moore Wilsons - it does not provide any drive-in access to any apartments. You can check this on google maps using street view (because they have kind of old pics there) - it shows the motorcycle park was immediately to the right of the Moore Wilsons car park ramp. That area is now an entry into Moore Wilsons, not an apartment parking area in sight.

So therefore it would seem that the answer is simple - put the motorcycle park back where it was, problem solved. Moore Wilsons will lose their accessway, but then if the crossing engineer had done their job properly Moore Wilsons shouldn't have got an access there anyway.

But I suppose you'll say that rather than just put it back it has to go through the due process, taking up time and resources that could have been used elsewhere. Nice work by the crossing engineer - what happened to them? Any reprimand? Or do they just get to carry on business as usual putting in crossings without talking to other departments?

FFS. 6 posts and everyone of them having a go at Jon. If you try going back through the whole thread, you will see that Jon is actually working with us not against us. He has aswered your question 3 times and apologised for the mistake. He has also stated that he is working on getting the park replaced. Other than going down there with a pick and shovel, what the fuck do you want him to do. Give the guy a break.
At the moment, he is working with us under the constraints of his role. He came on here to answer questions and try to put the council point of view. We need to work with him not against him.

Both myself and Stoney met Jon during the Bikeoi and he is a nice guy, just getting on with his job. The guy needs to be cut some slack. He didn't need to come on here and take the crap that he is getting.

Yes a mistake may have been made in this instance. But who hasn't made a mistake. Even NASA engineers fuck up sometimes. Only difference is when NASA fucks up, someone dies. The council engineer fuck up, you can't park your scooter in your favourite spot and have to walk a few extra metres.

[Jiminy]

What hawkeye said

[XP@]

Jon is doing a fantastic job here!

This is an excellent example of council interacting an a positive way.
It would be great to see more of this type of communication. I suspect we will not see much more if they are not fully respected for what they are doing.

It would be interesting to know what the required process is to get an area of street changed in to a bike park, can you help there Jon?

[Chocolate Boy]

FFS. 6 posts

So sorry for only being a noob, not sure how I can fix that though.

and everyone of them having a go at Jon.

Get your facts right. Since I've only made 6 posts to date it shouldn't be too hard to count them up. One of my posts was on an ACC thread, & some of my posts about WCC parking haven't even mentioned Jon, and absolutely none of them have had a go at Jon. I've simply asked questions of Jon as the self-elected representative of the WCC on this forum - is that not the point of having a forum and Jon choosing to join that discussion?

If you try going back through the whole thread, you will see that Jon is actually working with us not against us. He has aswered your question 3 times and apologised for the mistake.

You make it sound as if I've asked the same question 3 times and been answered 3 times. In fact I asked about the Sunday discretion (so did some others I notice) and was answered.
Then I asked about progress on the College St park, and was answered. Then I asked how the mistake occurred, and got an answer that didn't give much assurance about the same not happening elsewhere in the city, so I asked for more info to give all of us that reassurance.

He has also stated that he is working on getting the park replaced.

I never doubted or questioned that. I'm sure he is, but when the Council (note that I say Council, not Jon) is busy saying we've put in more parks, you must use them or pay for parking buildings or we'll give you tickets then somehow an error within the Council means motorbike parks are removed, I think they need to be questioned on that. If they aren't, maybe the same will happen in other places, no one says anything, and we're all worse off for it.
And lets not forget about the Council making an error that then has to go through the various consent etc process to fix that error, taking up ratepayers' resources.

Other than going down there with a pick and shovel, what the fuck do you want him to do.

Oh I don't know, how about an assurance that the person who made the mistake has been corrected and some kind of assurance it's not going to happen in another part of the city. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Give the guy a break.
At the moment, he is working with us under the constraints of his role. He came on here to answer questions and try to put the council point of view. We need to work with him not against him.

So when you say give the guy a break you mean I shouldn't ask him questions about the Council point of view of motorbike parking problems? But hang on, you just said that's what he came on here for - anyone else spot the conflicting nature of those statements?

Both myself and Stoney met Jon during the Bikeoi and he is a nice guy, just getting on with his job. The guy needs to be cut some slack. He didn't need to come on here and take the crap that he is getting.

I'm sure he is - can you point out to me the part where I gave him any crap. Other than asking some questions that relate to his role and the reason he came on here.

Yes a mistake may have been made in this instance. But who hasn't made a mistake. Even NASA engineers fuck up sometimes. Only difference is when NASA fucks up, someone dies. The council engineer fuck up, you can't park your scooter in your favourite spot and have to walk a few extra metres.

A) I'm trying to think of the bigger picture, i.e. asking questions to make sure Jon can then go the department(s) that have made the mistake to ensure they're aware of those errors and not let them happen again in other places. How would you react if the same happened to the spot you usually park in? And then somewhere else? And then somewhere else?
B) It's not even my favourite spot - I think I've only ever parked there three times, but that's not the point. The problem I have is the conflicting statements and actions of the Council where they say on one hand they've provided more parks, but then on the other take some away. All I want is some response to ensure that the person who made the mistake has been held accountable for that, and to assure all of us that this error has been brought to the attention of the various roading/parking/etc departments to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Jon Visser]

Nice work by the crossing engineer - what happened to them? Any reprimand? Or do they just get to carry on business as usual putting in crossings without talking to other departments?

Hi Chocolate Boy - we (the Council) don't beneft from being in this situation either so we do understand the importance of getting (or making) it right - that is my role, i.e. to improve the performance of the Council.

I also don't take any of your comments personally - they are clearly not directed at me, but at the Council in general, and it just happens to be me here representing them. When people lose something they always go through a range of emotions including needing to find someone to blame. Ultimately that doesn't get you anywhere and it is better to focus on the good things you do (or can) have.