Quads, and minimum age issue, serious discussion

[Katman]

the nz press ( esp the Herald) has done a shit house job of reporting this accident, there was no big farm quad involved as there pictures suggests, it was a kids quad, and she was not riding unsupervised,

and as per there usual m o of getting everyone to comment on the fact has brought out the usual knee jerk reactions,

My apologies for assuming that the picture of the quad bike being taken away by the tow truck was the bike in question.

[StoneY]

the nz press ( esp the Herald) has done a shit house job of reporting this accident, there was no big farm quad involved as there pictures suggests, it was a kids quad, and she was not riding unsupervised,

and as per there usual m o of getting everyone to comment on the fact has brought out the usual knee jerk reactions,

That dont look like a Kids quad strapped to the back of the tow truck taking it away, but as you say, press and presented 'facts' could well be suss

Knee jerk reaction? I totally disagree as I am sure at LEAST 17 families in NZ may (or may not) agree with, 17 off road fatalities in very young ages, all related to quad bikes of whatever size.
If this was a one off every 4-5 years, I would agree mate, but not when 16 died between 2000 and 2006, how many between 2006 and now?

I wonder how many kids have been killed on two wheeled off road bikes in that same period?

I would hate to see kids missing out on the fun too, but maynbe as Frosty points out, too powerful or too heavy....surely some basic guidelines would help?
I recall my mates farm runs 3 or 4 BIG quads, he refuses to let anyone under 50kg body weight on them

[wingrider]

I dont wont to see an over regulated system either but at the end it comes down to people being sensible.

Do we as parents or operators simply allow a child to operate something that is above that childs capability?
Do we also allow the child to operate that item without correct safety equipment? (not saying it was the case here)

In saying that, there are enough dumb arsed parents that allow their child to go out and buy a worked WRX or Evo7 at 16 believing Janet or John is bright enough to drive it in a sensible and lawful manner.

It's a bloody hard call but in the end as the adult we have to be able to say no where we feel the likely hood of injury or worse is greater than whatever enjoyment may be had.
10 minutes of fun followed by a lifetime of grief and forever those words "If Only".

[scott411]

that picture was not the quad in question, it is a file image, the quad that was involved was a kids quad, and quads are not segergated so i do not know how many were kids quads, it is one of the problems with the herald reporting, they paint the picture they wanted to, bad news sells papers

i feel for all those families, but you need to put it into perspective,

in the years in question how many kids have dies in pools or the sea?, do you plan on banning all under 16's from swimming as well?

your mate sounds very sound, and i would guess the majority of farmers are that saftey consceince as well, but a blanket under 16 ban may effect him as well, as there are plenty of 14 or 15 year old kids that can safely operate farm quads, and do so everyday,

[mashman]

The only experience i have of quad accidents was watching my 19 year old mate hooning around and throwing the 125 off the edge of a hill. He wrapped himself around a telegraph pole and the quad was totalled a further 20 feet down. He rode a 250, both on and off road, yet really didn't seem to have the skills to manage the 4 wheeler. I still to this day do not understand why he didn't turn away or brake before he crested the hill. He knew the drop off was there as we'd been joking about if for about half an hour, a little excitement got the better of him i assume...

I can only guess that similar misjudgements are to "blame" for younger people having similar accidents. It is a travesty, but short of the nana thing, it's going to be hard to stop it from happening.

[StoneY]

Im not suggesting a blanket ban on under 16's, now thats overboard

Im looking for some sanity here, trying to see what we can do differently

I have no idea how many have drowned etc but can GARANTEE more kids go swimming, and are able to swim, than kids that ride quads are actually able to manage the machine...if you follow

I dont want to instigate the whole Nana thing, but surely there must be some reasonable limit to suggest, either weight/age or cc capacity vs age....

I reckon Frosty might have the formula but what a hell of a thing to try educate/enforce nationawide in a country of daredevils

I was just stunned at the death toll by comparison other offroad machinery activities, it really hit a note

[Deano]

Yeah, wonder what OSH and the next coroner report will come up with over this current one

It was a commercial location, yes? Some kind of 'rent a ride' park?
Or was it the dads own machine???
Thats not quite clear to me, and relevance is related to operator responsibility

If a prior corroners report had suggested age limits, wouldnt a commercial operator need to have some kind of policy in place to age/weight requirements?

Do quads come with safety warnings regarding minimum physical size requirements to operate them?

More we discuss, more questions raised....sigh
16 families that lost kids in 6 years.....not to mention the number of serious hospitalizations......how can this go unanswered by any sensible governing body?

A commercial operator providing the quads for monetary gain must have a Certificate of Registration from OSH, with a list of conditions that they must adhere to.

Some conditions I am aware of are:

a minimum age of 6 years;
the type of quad the certificate relates to - in the example I am aware of it was LT50's;
the operating area had to be that the vehicles be operated on generally flat ground.

I have also been on quads at a park in Makara and we went all over the place, up hills etc, so I guess that the operator must get special dispensation to avoid that last condition ?

[scott411]

My apologies for assuming that the picture of the quad bike being taken away by the tow truck was the bike in question.

no need to apoligise, if you looked at the picture you would assume that, i think it is pretty irresponsable for the herald to run a picture like that when missrepresents the bike in question.

[MotoGirl]

I'm not convinced that an age restriction is the answer, based on my own experience living rurally and using a 250cc quad during my primary school years.

There are two things that prompt me to think this:

• Confidence increases as children gain experience. The kids may be supervised while they’re initially learning to ride the quad but this supervision is likely to disappear once they've grasped the basics. If the kid is capable of using the quad to round up the cows then the parents will happily delegate the chores with little or no thought of how the kid rides the quad when they're not watching.
• Riding a quad is a necessary evil. Country bumpkins are normally familiar with this type of machinery – they use it in their day-to-day lives and it’s a necessary part of contributing to the family chores. If you live on a large block of land, it’s simply not practical to walk some places. I went to a rural primary school and all of my classmates could either ride a bike or drive.

If these kids have any similarities between their upbringing and what I had, the quad will be used as the favourite toy. They will get up to all sorts of mischief, be it racing all over their land, doing donuts, going up and down steep banks, and jumping it off things. The hardest bit to control is that they will do this on their way to the paddock when they need to do chores!

Plus, how do you police activities happening on private land?

[T.W.R]

On a whole kids quads are less stable than full sized quads and generally are designed for flat terrain... hence the majority come fitted with teather ropes & govenor screws on the throttle bosses so parents can maintain control of the quad if the kid gets into trouble etc.

As for Farmers and their quads; a huge proportion do abosultely nil in respects to maintaining their machines to a safe standard of usuability and totally thumb their noses at safety guidlines for using the quads in the farming situation.

having worked on plenty I've seen close-up how neglectful farmers are in general are to their quads and it isn't just the fact of having farmworkers who have no respect for their quads it lies with the farm manager/owner to insure the machines are kept in good working condition but none do, they just get driven till they're falling apart...dairy farmers being by far the worst offenders

[scott411]

Im not suggesting a blanket ban on under 16's, now thats overboard

Im looking for some sanity here, trying to see what we can do differently

I have no idea how many have drowned etc but can GARANTEE more kids go swimming, and are able to swim, than kids that ride quads are actually able to manage the machine...if you follow

I dont want to instigate the whole Nana thing, but surely there must be some reasonable limit to suggest, either weight/age or cc capacity vs age....

I reckon Frosty might have the formula but what a hell of a thing to try educate/enforce nationawide in a country of daredevils

I was just stunned at the death toll by comparison other offroad machinery activities, it really hit a note

i understand what you are on to, but this whole accident has been missrepresented majorly, she was on a kids quad, being watched by her father, i am not sure what else you can do, i brought up the swimming example to show that sometimes accidents happen despite your best efforts. i would be really interested to know the stats on horse accidents as well, as i think they would be similar.

the problem with trying ot make certain rules is there is always an exception,

the last young girl that died in taranaki was on a farm quad, that was not maintained properly, and her father was charged over it (and i think convicted), which i think was the right actions,

this is a different thing all together, and OSH adn the police will look into it, if they think the fathers actions were bad, they will prosercute, a blanket ban will cause a whole lot more issues,

[StoneY]

Ok, so ban wont work, unenforcable, no method to make stubborn farmers change brake pads.......

Im more concerned over these motor parks and rental groups than I am a farmers situation, they live breath and shit the quad's even if poorly maintained, and despite the injuries they have i think its a non issue, and neccesary evil for the farming group as well as a part of the reallity

Its the recreational and hire quads that seems to be where the worst accidents occur to the kids

I have also done the Makara quad bike park adventures too, at least they check you out on basic skills before going bush...or did when I went

Guess its just another statsitic in the end....

Thanks for all the input everyone.
Nice to have had a decent topic discussion for once where evryone tried to make sense

[scott411]

intereting debate this is, i went looking for injury statistics for youth, and found this report,


http://www.safekids.org.nz/Downloads...is%20VLR_2.pdf

interesting that motorcycling makes the top 10 in injuries, but not death's

In the period 2001-2005, there were 475 child injury related fatalities in New Zealand. The top ten causes were:

1. Accidental threat to breathing
2. Transport Accident: Vehicle Occupant
3. Transport Accident: Pedestrian
4. Drowning/ Submersion
5. Assault
6. Electricity/ Fire/ Burn
7. Intentional Self Harm
8. Falls
9. Transport Accident: Cyclist
10. Transport Accident: Other Land Transport

In the period 2003-2007, there were 60,242 children hospitalised in New Zealand due to an injury. The top ten causes
were:
1. Falls
2. Mechanical Forces: Inanimate
3. Transport: Cyclist
4. Other Causes
5. Accidental Poisoning
6. Mechanical Forces: Animate
7. Electricity/ Fire/ Burn
8. Transport: Other Land Transport
9. Transport: Vehicle Occupant
10. Transport: Motorbike


it has been stated that 16 kids died in this year, making 3.3% of the total deaths by accident,

[neels]

7. Intentional Self Harm

Thats a bit scary

[StoneY]

Thats a bit scary

Sad fact, wish they still televised the Fight For Life

Teenage suicide has fallen offthe radar again...and still we have a very high rate of it in NZ
But digress....this was about specifically quad's and restrictions

Good information Scott well researched