ESE's works engine tuner

[Buckets4Me]

Don't turn this into a GP bitch thread.
I'm fine with the way it was run - because it was run. I don't care where it is run, how long it is or anything else. If it's worth going to, and I can afford it, I'll be there.

thats what I'm saying they in the MAIN LAND can go to the effort of running a gp if they want and I'm sure some of the north island crew mill try and make it down ( I know I would try)
but first they have to organise it (not just call it a gp)
I'm still looking foward to the BOB when I get a chance to go down
and I think Taupo is the most central place for the GP

and If some one had a BOB at Hampton downs I'd be there
( because I didn't have to do anything but turn up. Nothing happens unless you make it or support it when it dose)

well done to everyone at the TRRS no complaints about the length of races from me (I got to race where I wouldn't have otherwise)

so GAV get organising (and I will get saving)

I like the idear of north one year and south the next (again get organising book it in I'm not coming down the month before TRRS sorry)

[Kendog]

and I think Taupo is the most central place for the GP

Taupo isn't very central for those down in the SI.

[TZ350]

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Now that Taupo is done and dusted.

I have been looking at ways of improving the induction system on my GP to maximise the air flow through the restriction of the 24mm carburettor insert.

Looking at resonance in air columns:- http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/hframe.html

And the design of air box’s for modern 4-Strokes:-

Resonant Airboxes: Theory and Applications:- http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Airboxes.html

resonant rpm = 4775 sqrt( 116.5 A / VL ) (single cylinder 4-stroke)
resonant rpm = 9550 sqrt( 116.5 A / VL ) (V-twin 4-stroke)
resonant rpm = 19100 sqrt( 116.5 A / VL ) (4 cylinder 4-stroke)

Two of the formulas can be used for 2-Strokes

resonant rpm = 9550 sqrt( 116.5 A / VL ) (single cylinder 2-stroke)
resonant rpm = 19100 sqrt( 116.5 A / VL ) (twin cylinder 2-stroke)

Where the A=area of the inlet tube is in cm2, V = volume in cc’s, L=length of the inlet tube in cm’s.

The theroy is that the maximum volume of air will flow through the 24mm carburettor when it is in resonance with the plenum.

Using the formula for single cylinder 2-strokes I find that with a plenum of 1000cc and an inlet tract diameter of 24mm the inlet tract only needs to be varied 3-6mm approximately to shift the resonant point from 8,500 rpm to 12,000.

If I can arrange it so the motor draws directly from the plenum through a short 34mm inlet duct. And make a variable length 24mm carb that stays in resonance with the plenum as the rev's vary then the motor will be drawing directly from a high-pressure source (the plenum) through an unrestricted 34mm inlet.

Hopefully this should be much like having a 34mm carb on the motor. I have already started making the parts.

A resonant air box (plenum) is also something that the 4-stroke boys could make to increase their hp and extend the power band of their motors.

.

[F5 Dave]

So did you ever find out why the No1 motor wasn't shifting properly?

[TZ350]

So did you ever find out why the No1 motor wasn't shifting properly?

Hi Dave, No, I have not properly investigated it yet but think I may have been a bit hasty in changing it out for last years engine. That night when I thought about it I realised it was jumping out of gears randomly on up shifts but not out of first or down shifts which suggests the gear linkage may not have been adjusted properly for a full throw up-shifting.

Pity as the new engine felt real good and pulled and throttled well. I was encouraged as the special diffuser carb idea seemed to work ok and the motor made good power and drove well on the track.

But I had no time to test ride it before hand. I guess that’s what you get for rushing to finish a job and taking an untried bike to Taupo. Also it was the first time I had been on a bike for a while and I was struggling a bit but all in all I enjoyed my two days at the TRRS.

The plenum chamber idea is something that I had wanted to try at Taupo but ran out of time. Now I can rework the whole engine and try some new ideas, like the plenum chamber, programable ignition, water injection, oil cooling, cold air box and spend some time on the dyno getting the pipe right.

There is a lot to do before next year.

.

[TZ350]

I am still finding my way around the new system and can't upload images ???????

Why????????

[gav]

thats what I'm saying they in the MAIN LAND can go to the effort of running a gp if they want and I'm sure some of the north island crew mill try and make it down ( I know I would try)
but first they have to organise it (not just call it a gp)
I'm still looking foward to the BOB when I get a chance to go down
and I think Taupo is the most central place for the GP

and If some one had a BOB at Hampton downs I'd be there
( because I didn't have to do anything but turn up. Nothing happens unless you make it or support it when it dose)

well done to everyone at the TRRS no complaints about the length of races from me (I got to race where I wouldn't have otherwise)

so GAV get organising (and I will get saving)

I like the idear of north one year and south the next (again get organising book it in I'm not coming down the month before TRRS sorry)

Well, didnt mean to ruffle any feathers. I had thought that a GP title was suppose to be run over a certain length, but see now that it was suppose to be a 10 lapper. Couldnt actually find any rules that state it has to be a certain length, so maybe just a tradition?
I've been on the committee for BOB down here, and I believe this year we are tyring to do something a bit special, hopefully over a weekend with racing at both Ruapuna and Levels, both tracks are awesome on a bucket.
Think the Welly mob enjoyed it down here, when they made the trip and we enjoyed them being here. Hopefully we can get you Aucklanders down here too. Sorry but Taupo at xmas time is a bit pricey to get too for most down here I think.

[richban]

.

Now that Taupo is done and dusted.

I have been looking at ways of improving the induction system on my GP to maximise the air flow through the restriction of the 24mm carburettor insert.

Looking at resonance in air columns:- http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/hframe.html

And the design of air box’s for modern 4-Strokes:-

Resonant Airboxes: Theory and Applications:- http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Airboxes.html

resonant rpm = 4775 sqrt( 116.5 A / VL ) (single cylinder 4-stroke)
resonant rpm = 9550 sqrt( 116.5 A / VL ) (V-twin 4-stroke)
resonant rpm = 19100 sqrt( 116.5 A / VL ) (4 cylinder 4-stroke)

Two of the formulas can be used for 2-Strokes

resonant rpm = 9550 sqrt( 116.5 A / VL ) (single cylinder 2-stroke)
resonant rpm = 19100 sqrt( 116.5 A / VL ) (twin cylinder 2-stroke)

Where the A=area of the inlet tube is in cm2, V = volume in cc’s, L=length of the inlet tube in cm’s.

The theroy is that the maximum volume of air will flow through the 24mm carburettor when it is in resonance with the plenum.

Using the formula for single cylinder 2-strokes I find that with a plenum of 1000cc and an inlet tract diameter of 24mm the inlet tract only needs to be varied 3-6mm approximately to shift the resonant point from 8,500 rpm to 12,000.

If I can arrange it so the motor draws directly from the plenum through a short 34mm inlet duct. And make a variable length 24mm carb that stays in resonance with the plenum as the rev's vary then the motor will be drawing directly from a high-pressure source (the plenum) through an unrestricted 34mm inlet.

Hopefully this should be much like having a 34mm carb on the motor. I have already started making the parts.

A resonant air box (plenum) is also something that the 4-stroke boys could make to increase their hp and extend the power band of their motors.

.

I have looked at this in the past. I can't remember what bike it was but it had a flap inside the air box that increased and decreased the volume on throttle position (quite nifty). When I fitted a make shift air box to my bike everything started to come together. I am working on 2 exhausts at the mo. When they are built I will be making some air boxes to try with each pipe. I reckon there are big gains to be made.

[Buckets4Me]

Well, didnt mean to ruffle any feathers. I had thought that a GP title was suppose to be run over a certain length, but see now that it was suppose to be a 10 lapper. Couldnt actually find any rules that state it has to be a certain length, so maybe just a tradition?
I've been on the committee for BOB down here, and I believe this year we are tyring to do something a bit special, hopefully over a weekend with racing at both Ruapuna and Levels, both tracks are awesome on a bucket.
Think the Welly mob enjoyed it down here, when they made the trip and we enjoyed them being here. Hopefully we can get you Aucklanders down here too. Sorry but Taupo at xmas time is a bit pricey to get too for most down here I think.

didn't ruffle any feathers here
na its just all the talk about how it should be this and that and something compleatly different
but the truth of the matter is that if it wasnt 5 laps or 10 laps we just would not have had a GP this year at all
who els was ready to run it ?????
The team at the TRRS had only 2 days to fit in an awfull lot of racing (3 days last year much better)
and need I remind you that buckets where not the only bikes there
the 3 hour was much more important than us (but only just)
so we can count ourselfs lucky that we got 10 laps and not just another half hour arount MtWellington like every other year

ps we would have made more of an effort to get to bob this year but at 2 weeks before TRRS good luck

Sorry but Taupo at xmas time is a bit pricey to get too for most down here I think.

snap same problem dam this long thin country (we did get A bike there )

[jasonu]

What about trying to combine with the Classics mob for the next GP. Invite the 150SS as well. Say a 2 day meet at Taupo. They have less classes and generally shorter races (those old guys on old bikes don't like the marathon length races) so more chance for a decent amount of laps for a national GP title race. If you keep trying to combine with the big bikes F1 F2 etc the buckets will always be bottom of the totum pole. No disrespect intended to the organisers of the Taupo meet, I know Chris always does his best to please all.

[richban]

More intake info that might help. Most of this is over my head but you may get something from it. http://www.profblairandassociates.co.../Bellmouth.zip

[TZ350]

.

More intake info that might help. Most of this is over my head but you may get something from it. http://www.profblairandassociates.co.../Bellmouth.zip

Interesting post

I have just down loaded and read it. The new Keihin and OKO copy carbs I have been looking at recently look like Fig 7 with the elliptical intake profile and are apparently the best shape according to Blair. Which is interesting because they are visibly different to the traditional Mikuni bellmouth.

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[richban]

.



Interesting post

I have just read it. The new Keihin and OKO copy carbs I have been looking at look like Fig 7 with the elliptical intake profile and is apparently the best shape according to Blair. Which is interesting because they are visibly different to the traditional Mikuni bellmouth.

.

The bellmounth on the TM28 I am using looks very crude in compassion with some of the Keihin models. I am going to try adding a radious to the carb bellmounth in affect creating a 10mm trumpet. Then airbox. Also looking at a flat floor in the carb body for more flow. Mr Mikuni recons that a 28mm is fine for around 30hp and will flow nice up to 130000 rpm so should be fine for my bike.

[TZ350]

I have looked at this in the past. I can't remember what bike it was but it had a flap inside the air box that increased and decreased the volume on throttle position (quite nifty). When I fitted a make shift air box to my bike everything started to come together. I am working on 2 exhausts at the mo. When they are built I will be making some air boxes to try with each pipe. I reckon there are big gains to be made.

Its very encouraging to hear from someone who has tried this before and had some success with it.

.

[TZ350]

The bellmounth on the TM28 I am using looks very crude in compassion with some of the Keihin models. I am going to try adding a radious to the carb bellmounth in affect creating a 10mm trumpet. Then airbox. Also looking at a flat floor in the carb body for more flow. Mr Mikuni recons that a 28mm is fine for around 30hp and will flow nice up to 130000 rpm so should be fine for my bike.

It is interesting that a 28 is good for 30hp, our 24mm flow tubes that we use for sleeving down larger carbs, pass as much air as a 28mm carb does. I read some where that people spend a lot of time porting their motors but overlook the carb and that big gains can be made by working on the carb.

.