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Thread: Interesting concept from Lotus

  1. #1
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    Interesting concept from Lotus

    This article, first published in the February 2009
    issue of Bike Magazine, is reprinted by kind
    permission of its author, Rupert Paul.

    It’s lap 18 of the Estoril MotoGP, 2016, and the
    Norton rotary, bankrolled by Malaysian renewable
    hydrogen fuel giant Petronas, is doing its usual
    trick of streaking into the lead for six laps, before
    cutting power to ensure it lasts the race.
    Luca Rossi, little bro of the old master, is powersliding round in second
    on his 900cc V4 two stroke, built by the newly-merged Kawasaki-
    Suzuki corporation. There’s not a blue haze in sight, and no expansion
    chambers either. Behind him Taylor MacKenzie, son of Neil, could
    equal his dad’s best GP placing – on a supercharged Zongshen
    bioethanol triple.
    Or could he? Triple world champ Marco Simoncelli is closing fast on
    his 2WD methanol-powered Yamaha M2. And he’s bringing wild card
    Tom Sykes with him, on the Queen’s University Belfast twin-crank,
    compound pressure-charged LPG-burning single. But in the end,
    Hiroshi Ayoama wins. It’s a blistering day, and his solar panel-faired,
    regenerative-braking Honda has been quietly stockpiling energy
    throughout the race. On the last two laps the low-revving 2-litre V5
    sprouts another 50bhp, demolishing the competition in imperious
    style.
    This is what racing could be like – a feast of competing technologies
    not seen since the 1920s. All it would take is one rule: to limit every
    machine to a fixed amount of startline energy.
    That’s the vision of world-leading combustion experts Jamie Turner and
    Richard Pearson at Lotus Engineering in Norfolk. Although they work
    in the car world, their ideas make equal sense for bikes. They’ve spent
    their careers researching powertrain technology, and are now trying
    to reform the global system of making and regulating cars to head off
    the twin horrors of global warming and energy insecurity. Their latest
    move is a paper* to reconfigure motorsport, ‘to drive technology for
    the betterment of mankind’. Their message? Racing needs relevance.
    It has to start reflecting the challenges we face in the real world.
    Rationing energy is not entirely a new idea. After all, today’s MotoGP
    bikes do their stuff on a 21-litre petrol limit – a principle Jamie and
    Richard believe Bernie Ecclestone should adopt. But they also point
    out that petrol is only one fuel. There are now cars and bikes out there
    that run on diesel, ethanol, methanol, fuel cells, batteries and even
    hydrogen. All different forms of energy storage, and litres is no way to
    measure them. For that, you need Megajoules.
    Turner and Pearson calculate that an F1 car needs about 4784MJ to
    complete a race. That means a MotoGP bike, doing 17mpg on fossil-
    based petrol, uses 669MJ. And if you specify the allowance that way,
    suddenly every powertrain technology can compete on a level playing
    field. Top-class racing is transformed into a straight fight for efficiency
    – which is exactly what the world needs. Forget Carmelo Ezpeleta’s
    decision to scrap the 250s. If he really understood the game he was in
    he’d have a 650MJ top class, backed by 400MJ and 200MJ classes.
    If the world championship were being set up today rather than in 1949,
    that’s what it would look like.
    And it needn’t stop there. Energy rationing drives ‘tank-to-wheel’
    efficiency for all fuels. Why not also use racing to drive efficiency in the
    way different fuels are sourced, manufactured and transported – the
    so-called ‘well-to-tank’ stage?
    For example, new player Coskata make bioethanol from woody waste
    such as straw, leaves and forestry debris. Compared with hauling oil
    out of the ground, their process has been independently audited to
    emit 84% less fossil carbon. So if a race team used Coskata ethanol
    rather than gasoline, they ought to be allowed more of it. How
    much more? Turner and Pearson’s paper floats a methodology that
    would give a Coskata ethanol bike 8.4% more startline energy than
    its gasoline-powered equivalent. For corn ethanol it’s 2.9% more,
    renewable methanol 10.5%, and renewable hydrogen or electricity
    10%. To recognise this, there’d be an energy suppliers’ championship
    analagous to today’s manufacturer and team championships.
    MotoGP’s 21-litre limit is a good start, but the bikes are still glorified
    Manx Nortons. This is a plan that could move the series into the 21st
    century.

    Source: Rupert Paul, Bike Magazine
    Following on in the next issue of proActive, Jamie Turner, chief engineer
    of powertrain research for Lotus Engineering will provide more detail
    of how energy-based fuel formulae could be applied to future motor
    sport.

    *Turner and Pearson: The Application of Energy-Based Fuel Formulae
    to Increase the Efficiency Relevance and Reduce the CO2 Emissions
    of Motor Sport. SAE number 2008-01-2953, presented at the SAE
    Motorsports Conference”

  2. #2
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    Interseting indeed....
    Those ideas have many merits.... Oh, and imagine a nuclear powered bike.... All good until you bin, and destroy the landscape I guess...

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    Interesting, but not too practical, no other tech can compete with petrol speedwise, otherwise they would be on the start line anyway. So to make other options compeditive they would have to hobble the petrol bikes, not just a little bit like the current fuel limit does, but a lot. So I dont think it would replace MotoGP, but as another racing series, I'd watch it. However I think the claims of multiple tech on the start lineup are a little optimistic, however the rules are structured one technology will always be better than the rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bogan View Post
    Interesting, but not too practical, no other tech can compete with petrol speedwise, otherwise they would be on the start line anyway. So to make other options compeditive they would have to hobble the petrol bikes, not just a little bit like the current fuel limit does, but a lot. So I dont think it would replace MotoGP, but as another racing series, I'd watch it. However I think the claims of multiple tech on the start lineup are a little optimistic, however the rules are structured one technology will always be better than the rest.
    The idea is to take petrol's advantage in the rules away.
    The only reason petrol is used in MotoGP and F1 is because there is no other fuel allowed,otherwise the logical fuel to use would be methanol as it is in NASCAR and speedway.

    The Lotus concept is to make all competing vehicles have the same energy in their tanks/batteries/flux capacitors/reactors so technology isn't limited to Mr Otto's piston engine,which it will be as they progressively ban even the two stroke.

    PS. Tell how competitive petrol is to the Peugeot and Audi Diesels that win the Le Mans 24 hour each year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixie View Post
    The idea is to take petrol's advantage in the rules away.
    The only reason petrol is used in MotoGP and F1 is because there is no other fuel allowed,otherwise the logical fuel to use would be methanol as it is in NASCAR and speedway.

    The Lotus concept is to make all competing vehicles have the same energy in their tanks/batteries/flux capacitors/reactors so technology isn't limited to Mr Otto's piston engine,which it will be as they progressively ban even the two stroke.
    you make a good point about the methanol. But even if they allow whatever fuel and whatever engine size/configuration wont they just run methanol otto's for the next 20 odd years anyway? Actually that new two stroke design could prove better, and racing development could be what it needs. Anyhu, itll still go from one engine type to the other quickly, probly only a season or two for all teams to change over. So yeh, would like to see this implemented, as long as the energy allowance is equivalent to what they now use anyway.

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    Bring it on! Their are a raft of technologys waiting in the wings & a racing formula sounds perfect for development & promotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bogan View Post
    Interesting, but not too practical, no other tech can compete with petrol speedwise, otherwise they would be on the start line anyway. So to make other options compeditive they would have to hobble the petrol bikes, not just a little bit like the current fuel limit does, but a lot. So I dont think it would replace MotoGP, but as another racing series, I'd watch it. However I think the claims of multiple tech on the start lineup are a little optimistic, however the rules are structured one technology will always be better than the rest.
    Not necessarily, The starting energy would measured by the energy of the petrol in the tank, the thermal efficiency of a combustion engine can be as low as 25%, then take off mechanical efficiency, and there's not much left.

    I think your right that one technology would dominate.
    I could see how some setups (like electric) would allow for modest power most of the race with big bursts of power for overtaking. This would take the sport out of the racing imho.
    But on the other foot it would add more sport for the engineers and hopefully something good and innovative for the future of motorcycles.

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    yeh, would be like watching a cycle race sped up i guess, everyone drafting the whole time then huge bursts at the end.

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    I like the concept, and its great how its been quantified into Mega Joules, completely universal. I also agree that eventually one technology will dominate, and all teams will switch to that. Imagine then the impact that technology would have on regular motoring in real developed countries (I assume that was a big point in writing the paper).
    Then again, handicaps could be applied much in the same way the throats of the current big v-twins are etc. which would even the playing field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meowmix View Post
    I like the concept, and its great how its been quantified into Mega Joules, completely universal. I also agree that eventually one technology will dominate, and all teams will switch to that. Imagine then the impact that technology would have on regular motoring in real developed countries (I assume that was a big point in writing the paper).
    Then again, handicaps could be applied much in the same way the throats of the current big v-twins are etc. which would even the playing field.
    One technology would dominate until it gets superseded by advances in others.For example,right now I would bet low consumption two strokes using Lotus/Evinrude/Orbital techology could easily beat today's four strokes.Then perhaps a break through in high voltage supercaps would allow electric to surpass ic engines.

    One technology would dominate until it gets superseded by advances in others.For example,right now I would bet low consumption two strokes using Lotus/Evinrude/Orbital technology could easily beat today's four strokes.Then perhaps a break through in high voltage supercaps would allow electric to surpass ic engines.

    I read in the same Bike Magazine (March 09) in an article on Honda's new automatic transmissions for bikes,that in 1993 David Coulthard test drove a F1 car with a CVT transmission that knocked 3 seconds off his lap time for the conventional forks'n'gears gearbox car - and the FIM promptly banned CVT's.And that is why CVT's are still considered only ok for scooters.
    There is only limited technology advancement through racing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixie View Post
    I read in the same Bike Magazine (March 09) in an article on Honda's new automatic transmissions for bikes,that in 1993 David Coulthard test drove a F1 car with a CVT transmission that knocked 3 seconds off his lap time for the conventional forks'n'gears gearbox car - and the FIM promptly banned CVT's.And that is why CVT's are still considered only ok for scooters.
    There is only limited technology advancement through racing.
    Curious, I always thougt the CVT was limited to low horsepower applications dut to its inability to handle great amounts. Good to know it may be applied to much more. I think if current racing bosses could be swayed to switch to alternate energy sources, it wouldn't take much more to encourage the adoption of superior drivetrain, suspension and other technologies. All speculation though, I don't see anything changing unless theres no other option unfortunately.

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    There are many high torque CVT applications.Top end tractors use CVT's of the hydraulic angle drive type (the Honda DN-01uses this type).Engineers are working on 600hp units.Nissan use an Extroid toroidal transmission with their 3.5 litre V6.
    Belt drive CVT's for hi torque applications use push belts.These are metal plate belts that transmit torque via compression of the belt,rather than tension like a motorcycle drive chain or a rubber V-belt.

    Some info here;
    http://www.cvt.co.nz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixie View Post
    hydraulic angle drive type (the Honda DN-01uses this type).

    Some info here;
    http://www.cvt.co.nz
    aprilia mana too, i believe, and makes about 1/2 as much hp again as the honda, and is quite a bit lighter (actually power:weight ratio of a 650 burgman is better than the dn-01! )
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    CVT pffftt......... DSG is where the good stuff is at.
    Reactor Online. Sensors Online. Weapons Online. All Systems Nominal.

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    the aprillia mana looks sweet as!!! way better than having a useful scooter.

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