Fail: Sea Shepherd

[Skyryder]

Allowed? The member state has the right in law. So, NOT ILLEGAL.



The moritorium is still valid as far as the IWC powers go, but that is irrelevant. Your assertion that Japan is operating illegally has never been valid except in your non-functioning mind. Once again, for the stupid:





A swing and a miss. Again. And put those guns down or you'll shoot yourself in the foot again.



See that 'urging' bit? That means the IWC cannot tell them to stop because the Japanese are operating wholly within the law so the operation is NOT ILLEGAL.

Is it sinking in yet?

Nope.

You seem to be unable to determine the difference in what the the IWC lawfully allows and what it does not. The IWC allows whaling for scientific purposes and not for commercial whaling and it allows member nations to make decisions based on this.

Given the numbers of whale killed and that the meat finds it way onto the Japanese food markets only a fool would consider that Japan is whaling legally.

Skyryder

[kwaka_crasher]

Nope.

Sorry, but yip, not nope.

You seem to be unable to determine the difference in what the the IWC lawfully allows and what it does not. The IWC allows whaling for scientific purposes and not for commercial whaling and it allows member nations to make decisions based on this.

Nope. IWC doesn't ALLOW shit. They have no say in the matter. It's entirely down to the wishes of the member nation.

Given the numbers of whale killed and that the meat finds it way onto the Japanese food markets only a fool would consider that Japan is whaling legally.

Nope. It's REQUIRED that the animal be utilised. See here. Again.

Article VIII also requires that the animals be utilised once the scientific data have been collected.

As anyone with more than half a functioning brain can see, your bullshit and lies are thoroughly disproven. So stop wasting everyone's time and just accept you're completely wrong. Only then can you grow and mature.

[Skyryder]

Sorry, but yip, not nope.



Nope. IWC doesn't ALLOW shit. They have no say in the matter. It's entirely down to the wishes of the member nation.



Nope. It's REQUIRED that the animal be utilised. See here. Again.



As anyone with more than half a functioning brain can see, your bullshit and lies are thoroughly disproven. So stop wasting everyone's time and just accept you're completely wrong. Only then can you grow and mature.

The bottom line on this is that there is no need for Japan to be engaged in scientific studies as this is now being carried out by the IWC.

SOUTHERN OCEAN WHALE AND ECOSYSTEM RESEARCH PROGRAMME (SOWER)
In the mid-1970s, the IWC Scientific Committee established a major research programme known as the ‘International Decades of Cetacean Research’. One of the most important features of that programme was a series of international cruises (independent from whaling operations) in the Antarctic with the aim of obtaining abundance estimates for Southern Hemisphere minke whales. The ‘easiest’ place to do that is in the austral summer when the animals are feeding near to the ice. The first cruise took place in 1978/79 using two vessels (and crews) generously provided by the Government of Japan and with an international group of scientists. The design of the research programme is the responsibility of the IWC Scientific Committee. This approach has been continued in all cruises up to the present. Between 1980/81 and 1986/87, the USSR also provided one vessel. The IDCR programme ceased in 1996/97 and was replaced by the major new Southern Ocean Whale and Ecosystem Research (SOWER) programme.
Largely in response to worries about the low abundance of blue whales in the Southern Hemisphere, particularly in view of their protection since the mid-1960s, a research programme for large baleen whales was developed by the Scientific Committee. The work on blue whales, in particular has been incorporated into the traditional Antarctic sightings cruises. The programme also includes the collection of biopsy samples of skin from living whales and acoustic recording of blue whale sounds to determine stock and species identity and to improve abundance estimation techniques for rare populations. As techniques develop, increased emphasis will be given to integrated environmental research linking cetacean abundance and distributions with ecological factors.
The cruises have been successfully conducted for over 23 years with a total searching distance up to 2000/01 of 70,340 n.miles during 2,448 ship-days in the Antarctic. The collaborative nature of the programme is highlighted by the participation of 69 international researchers from 14 nations in the programme.
The cruises have provided a wealth of information on the distribution and abundance of cetaceans in the waters south of 60°S. An overview of the cruises can be found in the following published papers:
Branch, T.A. and Butterworth, D.S. 2001. Estimates of abundance south of 60ºS for cetacean species sighted frequently on the 1978/79 to 1997/98 IWC/IDCR-SOWER sighting surveys. J. Cetacean Res. Manage. 3(3):251-70.
Branch, T.A. and Butterworth, D.S. 2001. Southern Hemisphere minke whales: standardised abundance estimates from the 1978/79 to 1997/98 IDCR-SOWER surveys. J. Cetacean Res. Manage. 3(2):143-74.
Kasamatsu, F., Hembree, D., Joyce, G., Tsunoda, L., Rowlett, R. and Nakano, T. 1988. Distribution of cetacean sightings in the Antarctic: results obtained from the IWC/IDCR minke whale assessment cruises, 1978/79 to 1983/84. Rep. int. Whal. Commn. 38:449-87.
Matsuoka, K., Ensor, P., Hakamada, T., Shimada, H., Nishiwaki, S., Kasamatsu, F. and Kato, H. 2003. Overview of minke whale sightings surveys conducted on IWC/IDCR and SOWER Antarctic cruises from 1978/79 to 2000/01. J. Cetacean Res. Manage. 5(2):173-201.________________________________________ ________________________________________


It seems to me that after 23 years of research and that the IWC still has a moratorium on whaling and the majority of the member countries still adhere to this them in respect of the IWC the whaling by Japan is illegal. We can argue to the cows come home on this and come to no solution one way or the other. I belive that I am right on the basis of the information that I have supplied you believe you are right on what you have supplied from the IWC site.

Personally I have little interest in whaling be it illegal or not. My initial concern on this thread was in the deliberate ramming of another boat. You see this as acceptable on the basis that you do not agree with the motives of Sea Shepherd.

And now you ‘plead’ that I should admit that I am wrong and grow up.

Ya right about one thing, I ‘am’ wasting my time on this. No more.

Skyryder

[avgas]

Who are the board members of the IWC?
Where do their allegiance lie?
What laws exist where they do whaling?
I find all this very interesting from an international perspective - as according to the Japanese they are allowed the whales in what I would call international neutral waters. But on the same side of the coin I am surprised that SS haven't just sunk a Japanese ship - and find our which law will be applied.

[avgas]

The cruises have provided a wealth of information on the distribution and abundance of cetaceans in the waters south of 60°S. An overview of the cruises can be found in the following published papers:
Branch, T.A. and Butterworth, D.S. 2001. Estimates of abundance south of 60ºS for cetacean species sighted frequently on the 1978/79 to 1997/98 IWC/IDCR-SOWER sighting surveys. J. Cetacean Res. Manage. 3(3):251-70.
Branch, T.A. and Butterworth, D.S. 2001. Southern Hemisphere minke whales: standardised abundance estimates from the 1978/79 to 1997/98 IDCR-SOWER surveys. J. Cetacean Res. Manage. 3(2):143-74.
Kasamatsu, F., Hembree, D., Joyce, G., Tsunoda, L., Rowlett, R. and Nakano, T. 1988. Distribution of cetacean sightings in the Antarctic: results obtained from the IWC/IDCR minke whale assessment cruises, 1978/79 to 1983/84. Rep. int. Whal. Commn. 38:449-87.
Matsuoka, K., Ensor, P., Hakamada, T., Shimada, H., Nishiwaki, S., Kasamatsu, F. and Kato, H. 2003. Overview of minke whale sightings surveys conducted on IWC/IDCR and SOWER Antarctic cruises from 1978/79 to 2000/01. J. Cetacean Res. Manage. 5(2):173-201.

Does anyone else find this a little sick........its investigation for a business proposal - there is NO SCIENCE in regards to these numbers. They haven't tested food supply, water tempertures or anything. They have gone to place where something is and counted it. A 2 year old could do that......not a PHD grad. Research here is nothing but AUDITING.
I propose that we do a few bus tours, where we count and measure japanese graves. Then in 6 months we will come back a dig it up for a swimming pool.

[kwaka_crasher]

The bottom line on this is that there is no need for Japan to be engaged in scientific studies as this is now being carried out by the IWC.

No. The bottom line is it's none of your fucking business what they do within the law and the Japanese are, according to the IWC, operating entirely within the law.

It's one thing to say you don't agree with whaling and you have that right and the right to protest but to lie by saying it's illegal when you know otherwise and to try justify the Sea Fuckwit boats physically interfering with the entirely lawful activity of the Japanese is a completely different thing. They have no right whatsoever to do that. Those activities are unlawful.

It seems to me that after 23 years of research and that the IWC still has a moratorium on whaling and the majority of the member countries still adhere to this them in respect of the IWC the whaling by Japan is illegal. We can argue to the cows come home on this and come to no solution one way or the other.

Wait, I'm getting something... and this just in!
IWC SAYS JAPAN IS NOT WHALING ILLEGALLY!

Who is looking for a 'solution'? I'm just presenting FACTS.

I belive that I am right on the basis of the information that I have supplied you believe you are right on what you have supplied from the IWC site.

I don't just believe, I know I'm right and I've proven it. You trotted out the ICW as the definitive authority (despite the fact you never actually quoted anything from there) and then I proved your claims blatantly incorrect and entirely without foundation with information on the IWC website. You have no 'information' to the contrary - you just have some bullshit conjecture posted on some hippie website. So you are in fact just regurgitating shit you've previously swallowed.

Personally I have little interest in whaling be it illegal or not. My initial concern on this thread was in the deliberate ramming of another boat. You see this as acceptable on the basis that you do not agree with the motives of Sea Shepherd.

Fuck them and their 'motives'. Damn right it's acceptable to mow their arses down - they're unlawfully attempting to interfere in the lawful activites of the Japanese. If they just go and protest that's fine. But intentionally get in the way of the lawful activities of the Japanese and they can be sent to Davy Jones' locker for all I care. You might wrongly think they'd then be martyrs but in reality they'd just be some dead idiots.

And now you ‘plead’ that I should admit that I am wrong and grow up.

I pled nothing. It's up to you whether you wish to continue to look foolish by continuing to deny you've got it all completely wrong because you're ignorant of the facts. Clearly that is your choice. Just as it is my choice to laugh at and continue to correct you.

[Skyryder]

No. The bottom line is it's none of your fucking business what they do within the law and the Japanese are, according to the IWC, operating entirely within the law.

It's one thing to say you don't agree with whaling and you have that right and the right to protest but to lie by saying it's illegal when you know otherwise and to try justify the Sea Fuckwit boats physically interfering with the entirely lawful activity of the Japanese is a completely different thing. They have no right whatsoever to do that. Those activities are unlawful.

Wait, I'm getting something... and this just in!
IWC SAYS JAPAN IS NOT WHALING ILLEGALLY!

Who is looking for a 'solution'? I'm just presenting FACTS.



I don't just believe, I know I'm right and I've proven it. You trotted out the ICW as the definitive authority (despite the fact you never actually quoted anything from there) and then I proved your claims blatantly incorrect and entirely without foundation with information on the IWC website. You have no 'information' to the contrary - you just have some bullshit conjecture posted on some hippie website. So you are in fact just regurgitating shit you've previously swallowed.



Fuck them and their 'motives'. Damn right it's acceptable to mow their arses down - they're unlawfully attempting to interfere in the lawful activites of the Japanese. If they just go and protest that's fine. But intentionally get in the way of the lawful activities of the Japanese and they can be sent to Davy Jones' locker for all I care. You might wrongly think they'd then be martyrs but in reality they'd just be some dead idiots.



I pled nothing. It's up to you whether you wish to continue to look foolish by continuing to deny you've got it all completely wrong because you're ignorant of the facts. Clearly that is your choice. Just as it is my choice to laugh at and continue to correct you.

[kwaka_crasher]

It was already obvious facts bore you as you deal only in conjecture.

[pzkpfw]

This is the classic internet forum "yellow flag".

It's like a white flag, meaning "I surrender..." but adds a little bit of "...but I'll pretend I don't care".

[Skyryder]

This is the classic internet forum "yellow flag".

It's like a white flag, meaning "I surrender..." but adds a little bit of "...but I'll pretend I don't care".

Yes but it also means that the debate is going around in circles and I 'am' getting bored. (PLeading for me to give in is much the same as it suggests that the other opponent has run out of ideas to promote their arguement) Besides there comes a time when someone needs to call it quits. Fanatics do not seem to understand this. But believe what you will. Your choice. I'll 'not' pretend I just don't care............I don't care.

Skyryder

[JimO]

i dont care either

[LBD]

So by way of a semi closing comment..... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/al...hmentid=179036

[kwaka_crasher]

Yes but it also means that the debate is going around in circles and I 'am' getting bored. (PLeading for me to give in is much the same as it suggests that the other opponent has run out of ideas to promote their arguement) Besides there comes a time when someone needs to call it quits. Fanatics do not seem to understand this. But believe what you will. Your choice. I'll 'not' pretend I just don't care............I don't care.

There is no debate. You've been proven well and truely wrong. Just because you refuse to see the evidence and accept the fact doesn't change the reality.

Nobody is pleading with you - it's all in your head - just like the 'illegal Japanese whaling'. Who needs ideas to promote their argument when there are FACTS that settle the disagreement irrefutably? They're staring you in the face. Open your eyes, fool!

Fanatics lack logic and sound, critical reasoning in the face of overwhelming evidence contrary to their view, so if there's a fanatic in this thread, it's you!

I find it hilarious that you cared right up until it was pointed out that your ridiculous anti-whaling zealot position of 'the Japanese are whaling illegally' was a complete falsehood.

[awayatc]

which brainwashing powder you use?
seems to work quite well in whitewashing........

[kwaka_crasher]

which brainwashing powder you use?
seems to work quite well in whitewashing........

Whitewash: anything, as deceptive words or actions, used to cover up or gloss over faults, errors, or wrongdoings, or absolve a wrongdoer from blame.

That obviously far more closely reseembles the tactics of the Sea Shithead camp who have posted nothing but lies and then suddenly lose interest when confronted with verifiable facts. Clearly they're letting their xenophobia get the better of them.