GST going up, Personal and company tax going down, CGT in investment property

[Pascal]

but the government are borrowing it at a staggering 250mil per week... So run that one past me again!

Yes, the government having to fund the welfare state is the biggest exception

If the government keeps taking money off the "rich pricks", the mobility of their skills will eventually drive them to places where the cost of living is lower and they retain more of their income. This reduces the tax take available. It reduces the potential for further job creation, investment in companies and building on the economic wellbeing of the country as a whole.

By using GST as the primary source of income, they will be taxing spending. Good. But they will be encouraging people to increase their income and increase their savings and investments. Building future wealth at all levels.

[JimO]

those that think raising gst is a good idea remember that we pay gst on fuel that is already what??60% tax, rates etc raising gst is hard on low earners as they have to spend all their income to survive, i reckon that there should be no gst on food ......and smokes arnt food thay can raise the gst on smokes 500% for all i care. National are trying hard to be a 1 term gvmnt. dont be fooled into thinking that your personal tax would be lower

[Edbear]

You know what I find interesting? In any economy, particularly any Western economy, there are always the rich and the poor and the "middle class".

The one's making money will always make money and the one's living on the bones of their bum will always live on the bones of their bum.

There may be some advantages to tinkering with the tax system, and certain people in certain positions may be better off. However, for those who are now making money and living fairly well under this tax system, they will continue to do so under any new system.

For those who are struggling in this system, maybe they would be better served to ask and study how the better off are doing it?

Far greater differences are achievable by using three truisms...

1/ Improve your personal education, yes, that means study and learn and if you didn't do it at school, do it now.

2/ Set yourself goals, things you want to do and achieve and find out what it will take to achieve them, then do it!

3/ No-one is going to hand it to you. People will help with advice and encouragement if they see you working hard to better yourself, but you have to put in the effort, (and yes, it is an effort!), and the time and the energy to do it for yourself. Too hard? Okay, that's fine but you will ever remain as you are, otherwise.

[Tank]

I/S says it better than I ever could:

A group of rich, right-wing ideologues wants a more regressive tax system which sticks it to the poor with higher GST while giving tax cuts to the rich and opening new loopholes for them to dodge paying their fair share through corporate fronts.

Screw that..

You seem to be missing the point that by fixing the tax levels for trust and companies as well as addressing the depreciation etc on buildings they are not only closing loopholes, they are making it unattractive to use corporate fronts - essentially they will all be taxed at the same rate.

I/S - as is often the case - is a raving loon.

[mashman]

If the government keeps taking money off the "rich pricks", the mobility of their skills will eventually drive them to places where the cost of living is lower and they retain more of their income. This reduces the tax take available. It reduces the potential for further job creation, investment in companies and building on the economic wellbeing of the country as a whole.

I've heard this argument before, but in all honesty it's a crock of shit. The "rich" person only gets taxed on their income. If they leave, then their place will be taken by a competitor/entrepreneur etc... One who will pay exactly the same amount of taxation. Nothing changes other than the redistribution of the "rich" persons wealth... I can't believe people still buy that crap... that's the media and government scaremongering again.

[mashman]

For those who are struggling in this system, maybe they would be better served to ask and study how the better off are doing it?

sound advice for an economically run country... but what about those workers that helped to generate the wealth for the business owner. 9 times out of 10 they won't share in the profit, just another greedy rich prick wanting more money, because they had the idea, because they're at the top of the tree, because of their knowledge... what about those that actually do the work... i guess that's what happens when you live in a financial economy

[Edbear]

sound advice for an economically run country... but what about those workers that helped to generate the wealth for the business owner. 9 times out of 10 they won't share in the profit, just another greedy rich prick wanting more money, because they had the idea, because they're at the top of the tree, because of their knowledge... what about those that actually do the work... i guess that's what happens when you live in a financial economy

Sound advice for anyone my friend. Why aren't you the employer?

I have run in the past and am now running my own business. My son-in-law starting from scratch now runs his own successful business and has staff employed.

Anyone who thinks a business owner is a selfish rich prick taking advantage of his employess is completely ignorant of what it means to own and run a business. You get to work 24/7 instead of knocking off at 5pm and you work weekends, and you stress and worry about wages and the health of your staff who are necessary to the success of your business.

You have sacrificed, time, money and resources to build a business for teh future and you are constantly aware of your competitors who may have deeper pockets than you have. Your wife and children have been neglected due to the needs of your business as you try to get it firmly established. You worry about how to tell your staff to work harder as they sneak time and put forth less effort than they should, costing you money you can't really afford.

Employees need to appreciate that they are the key to whether a business succeeds or fails and if they bring the business down and are laid off, they lose less than the owner does. An employee who works hard for the success of the company will be highly valued and appreciated and the owner will look for when they can reward them.

[James Deuce]

dont be fooled into thinking that your personal tax would be lower

That's an important point to remember. At this stage the only change in personal tax rates is the top one paid on earnings over $60k. Income tax on earnings over $60k will drop 5%. Whoopee.

[rainman]

If the government keeps taking money off the "rich pricks", the mobility of their skills will eventually drive them to places where the cost of living is lower and they retain more of their income.

I recall seeing some stats recently that showed that most migration to Aussie in recent years was low-wage, which would rather squash that theory - can't find it now, will have to hunt around.

You know what I find interesting? In any economy, particularly any Western economy, there are always the rich and the poor and the "middle class".

The one's making money will always make money and the one's living on the bones of their bum will always live on the bones of their bum.

Yup, such is capitalism, and such are people. But I think there may be other factors at work besides natural variability in human temperament that cause there to be 1000 billionaires and 5 billion people on $10/day. It's systemic - y'know, the rich get richer, the poor poorer? The rest of your post is good.

You seem to be missing the point that by fixing the tax levels for trust and companies as well as addressing the depreciation etc on buildings they are not only closing loopholes, they are making it unattractive to use corporate fronts - essentially they will all be taxed at the same rate.

I/S - as is often the case - is a raving loon.

I confess I tossed that out as bait without having read the TWG report (still wading through it). I do like the elimination of incentives like the CGT and LAQC reform (but the devil's in the details and I will reserve endorsement until I see them). I think I/S's point was targeted at the lower top personal tax rate offset by added GST - which is rather in favour of the rich pricks among us.

And I/S is, in my opinion, one of the sanest commentators on NZ politics there is.

[peasea]

Jesus saves, Moses invests but only Buddah pays dividends.

Grow shitloads of pot, make heaps, retire. Simple.

[The Stranger:Me]

What are your thoughts !!!!!

"This is inherently unfair to the wage and salary earner who is then left to bear a disproportionate share of the personal tax burden."

Way I see it is wage and salary earners are the only ones who pay tax anyway, so it doesn't matter how you skin it.
My business effectively collects tax from others to give to the government. The people it collects tax from is wage and salary earners.
So who pays that tax?
GST though, I figure that catches the black market so I'm all for it.
Capital gains tax, well, if I can't get an adequate return on a rental I'll put the rent up to market value, so the wage and salary earner (tenants) will once again be paying.

Best idea I can see to make it "fairer" is to reduce govt spending.

[Shadows]

Sounds great to me.

The extra I get in my hand to use as I see fit instead of propping up the knuckledraggers in South Auckland is more than 5 times greater than the increase in GST I'll be paying on my current level of consumption.

I'm sick of spending so much of my time working to support useless cunts that the world would be better off without when I could be working to secure my own family's future. I've always wondered why I should work my fucking arse off and deal with all the stress so that they can sit around without a worry in the world, drink piss, protest about how hard done by they are, and beat their ever expanding menagerie of equally worthless children.

[JimO]

Sounds great to me.

The extra I get in my hand to use as I see fit instead of propping up the knuckledraggers in South Auckland is more than 5 times greater than the increase in GST I'll be paying on my current level of consumption.

I'm sick of spending so much of my time working to support useless cunts that the world would be better off without when I could be working to secure my own family's future. I've always wondered why I should work my fucking arse off and deal with all the stress so that they can sit around without a worry in the world, drink piss, protest about how hard done by they are, and beat their ever expanding menagerie of equally worthless children.

you wont get any extra in your hand.................food will go up, fuel will go up, rates will go up. acc will go up

[rainman]

Best idea I can see to make it "fairer" is to reduce govt spending.

Pretend you're PM. What would you cut, and how would you deal with the consequences?

The extra I get in my hand to use as I see fit instead of propping up the knuckledraggers in South Auckland is more than 5 times greater than the increase in GST I'll be paying on my current level of consumption.

Leaving aside your stereotype about knuckledraggers, what would you do with said beneficiaries? Like it or not, there are circumstances when we don't have full employment (cough recession cough), and this is usually not the fault of the beneficiaries. What would you do to them and their kids then? How would you manage crime?

I'm non-ideological about this: seriously, I'm open-minded about big govt vs little govt per se, and I've seen both welfare state and every-man-for-himself. I know lots of libertarian idiots who reflexively spout anti-welfare, anti-govt slogans; I know far fewer libertarians who think through the issues before engaging their mouths. Which are you?

[Blackflagged]

Are high Sales tax Countrys the most successful?
Online sellers in America, will be one of the winners, from raising GST in New Zealand.
But on the brightside, of a recent 10 point state of the economy survey compaired to Australia,we beat them on one. More McDonalds per head than Australia!