Update on running a kids grade.

[Trudes]

With all due respect, unless you will be involved in possibly having this effect YOUR race days and a venue that you and a few others worked hard to be allowed back to I'm not entirely sure you can comment without knowing the entire story here. By all means start a kids class in the HB and see how you get on. You are entirely correct that the kids should be encouraged to give it a go etc and should be properly outfitted. In Wellington we generally don't run our racing through MNZ, so this all has nothing to do with them.

I think it is essential to get kids on our kart tracks, anyone dealt with should already ride, they wear full leathers and all the proper gear. Its very daft a young person can ride a 85cc MX bike and not a bucket for starters. And their dads would spend less time cleaning mud off .... that i am sure some would appreciate. NZ is lagging behind the world in respect of kids on tarmac. This needs to be taken up properly at an MNZ discussion group at AGM time... like it or not it will make the biggest difference if we have MNZ approval and appropriate rules for the class.

[Trudes]

Oh and George, could you not have started this discussion in the Wellington Bucket Social group? That's what it's there for. Or is it not actually a discussion with the people it will effect directly what you were after?

[nudemetalz]

George.

I worked hard last year to get Kaitoke for all of the bucket racers to race it. I spent a lot of hours putting it all together. It has gone very well so far, please do not jeopardise it for others.
The idea of kids there on bikes is harebrained to say the least. Trudes, Kendog, No.1 are all on the right track.
Please listen to them.

[NSR143]

yeah my point was really generalizing on the subject, if you have local issues that another story ay.. We in HB are working on it ourselves.

[F5 Dave]

Totally agree with Nudez & the rest. This sounds like a sure fire way to stop racing in wgtn, as soon as a kid gets hurt there would be hell to pay & people would be running for cover including the kart club (fair enough too).

[Kickaha]

as soon as a kid gets hurt there would be hell to pay & people would be running for cover including the kart club (fair enough too).

Especially if they're not wearing full protective gear

[woodyracer]

kids are better off jsut having a ride on the practice days, thats how ive seen it done at mt wellington, probualy not the best idea to let them race until they are 13. Just keeps it simple thats all. I rode pocket bikes beofre i turned 13, it was great fun and i got useful skills for the track.

[Number One]

Oh and George, could you not have started this discussion in the Wellington Bucket Social group? That's what it's there for. Or is it not actually a discussion with the people it will effect directly what you were after?

I think I know the answer to that....George didn't mean for it to be a 'discussion' he was merely informing us of HIS plans....

[hmurphy]

A couple of these comments should have been sent to George as a PM. Don't attack people on a public forum.

My brother wants to have a crack at racing for sure. We have gear for him and I have been teaching him how to ride in car parks etc. Once I am sure he will be able to ride around the back of a B grade practice session and/or race then I would like to see him have a crack at it. Slipway will be the place to test this though. Far less is risked and I know he will be happy enough just getting to be out on the bike and to tell his friends he 'races motorbikes'. - My opinion.

[Kendog]

A couple of these comments should have been sent to George as a PM. Don't attack people on a public forum.

A non public location was set up for just that process (Wellington bucket social group). The public forum was chosen to tell us what was happening, so the public forum is where the responses should go.

My brother wants to have a crack at racing for sure. We have gear for him and I have been teaching him how to ride in car parks etc. Once I am sure he will be able to ride around the back of a B grade practice session and/or race then I would like to see him have a crack at it. Slipway will be the place to test this though. Far less is risked and I know he will be happy enough just getting to be out on the bike and to tell his friends he 'races motorbikes'. - My opinion.

Bingo. What you are doing with your brother is brilliant. As long as he doesn't beat me in B grade then all good

[hmurphy]

A non public location was set up for just that process (Wellington bucket social group). The public forum was chosen to tell us what was happening, so the public forum is where the responses should go.

Not worried about people's side they choose on his idea and explaining why. But he isn't abusing anyone else so comments that aren't expressing support or otherwise for the kids grade idea aren't really necessary, especially when the comment is to make someone feel bad or stupid infront of the bucket community (not to mention the many others who read up about buckets). A Personal Message would keep your opinion of the person private and this thread about the issue (kids grade) public.

Bingo. What you are doing with your brother is brilliant. As long as he doesn't beat me in B grade then all good

Haha he's getting better. He wants to get his 'knee down'. Hopefully he will be up to going out for a few laps at the next Slipway meeting.

[FROSTY:Me]

Folks I read this thread from end to end and I must say the general feeling of negativity from you lot initially had me going --do what??
Setting aside the odvious issues with riding gear which MUST be addressed I agree totally.
In my opinion IN THEORY the idea is fucking fantastic. ACTUALLY more than that totally brilliant.

BEFORE you lot flame me think this through.
Road racing in New zealand is not exactly a booming sport.Offroad though is just flying in comparison.
WHY??
Because kids as young as 5 can start mini moto racing. It grows from there.
its a family affair--ALL the family gets ro ride or race.
A chance to get young riders into road racing rather than motocross--HELL YEA.
PLEASE DON'T go on about how dangerous bucket racing is because thats a total crock.
In europe kids are road racing at a very young age (on the equivilant of buckets) and if you have ever been to an MX event then you will have seen how fast a 9 year old can ride and just how high they can jump a bike.
In comparisson to MX mini road racing is pretty darn safe.
if someone can grab this idea by the balls and find a safe way to make it work I'll support it.
As for MNZ In this case I say fuck em. Theres a bigger picture and if you want to see that bigger picture at work have a look at what Oyster and his crew manage with 13 year olds in the breaks in the south island road race meetings. Or if given the chance look and see the size of the junior race meetings in spain,italy and the likes

[Trudes]

I couldn't see any comments directed at making George feel bad as a person, comments saying the idea he's trying to push through with little or no support from the people, yes, but I couldn't see where anybody attacked him personally. Surely George is big enough not to take anything that has been said personally as it's the idea we're not keen on, it's just like if I came on here and said "right I'm starting a grade at buckets, I've already talked to the Kart club and they're fine with it. You have to wear a skirt, high heels and full make-up to be able to ride in it" there would be an uproar and people would say that's a stupid idea and there's no way in hell they'll support it, I wouldn't take it personally, merely that nobody likes my idea, so maybe I should drop it. Like we said, if you want to keep a topic within the realms of the Welly bucket community then address it through the social group.

[Trudes]

Like I said earlier, there is more to this than meets the eye.
Where the OP is proposing to start this up is at a kart track that only last year we received permission to be allowed back to after a fair amount of negotiation from one of our members with the support of the rest of us. Here we run our meets WITH the karts, so that usually entails we be there for sign in by 9am and we get to run two grades of buckets (numbers allowing and for our own safety, there is a massive gap in speeds between the fastest A grade riders and the slowest B grade riders). Generally we get a practice session and 4 races of usually about 10 minutes each. That is with about at least an hour of waiting about between so the karts can run their races. So you see, it's not like we have the track to ourselves on the days that are being proposed, we have to fit in around the kart schedule and try and fit in two grades of buckets as well, so time is short and putting in an extra grade for 4 or 5 kids to ride about is not really logical or fair on the kart drivers, who afterall, it is their days and we're lucky enough to be allowed to share. It's a fairly long and technical track which to be safe needs flag marshalls at most of the points. I personally don't have a major issue with the kids using the track at lunchtimes, however the OP said that the plan was to extend it to having a class run like A and B grades. This also wouldn't be a major issue if we decided to run our own bucket days at the track, we'd have plenty of time to fit in a grade for the kids or learners, however we then run into costs and organisatiuon issues, MNZ issues etc etc, and this is only done for very special occasions like our Easter event and our enduro.
The other point is we actually have two tracks we race at, the other track is a flat tarsealed runway type of set up where we make our own track. Here we have C grade run as well and we have the the whole place to ourselves. This is a better place to run kids "races" for them to learn, the entire track can be seen from either end and a suitable track can be made for the kids. We are suggesting to the OP that this would be a better place for him to develop the idea, it will get more support, not cut into the kart club's time on THEIR race days and generally be safer.

Folks I read this thread from end to end and I must say the general feeling of negativity from you lot initially had me going --do what??
Setting aside the odvious issues with riding gear which MUST be addressed I agree totally.
In my opinion IN THEORY the idea is fucking fantastic. ACTUALLY more than that totally brilliant.

BEFORE you lot flame me think this through.
Road racing in New zealand is not exactly a booming sport.Offroad though is just flying in comparison.
WHY??
Because kids as young as 5 can start mini moto racing. It grows from there.
its a family affair--ALL the family gets ro ride or race.
A chance to get young riders into road racing rather than motocross--HELL YEA.
PLEASE DON'T go on about how dangerous bucket racing is because thats a total crock.
In europe kids are road racing at a very young age (on the equivilant of buckets) and if you have ever been to an MX event then you will have seen how fast a 9 year old can ride and just how high they can jump a bike.
In comparisson to MX mini road racing is pretty darn safe.
if someone can grab this idea by the balls and find a safe way to make it work I'll support it.
As for MNZ In this case I say fuck em. Theres a bigger picture and if you want to see that bigger picture at work have a look at what Oyster and his crew manage with 13 year olds in the breaks in the south island road race meetings. Or if given the chance look and see the size of the junior race meetings in spain,italy and the likes

[FROSTY:Me]

Thanks Trudes for the logical well thought out reply. i hear where you are coming from and your arguments have merit.(sorry not intended to sound patronising in any way)
On that basis I agree with your concerns. --Ie basicly --dion't piss off the kart guys or you'll all miss out. fair call
BUT The IDEA is so good,GREAT--NO---- FANTASTIC It would be a shame to throw the idea away.

I do wonder though if his idea of a lunchtime session at the kart track might have merit from the simple point of view of capturing peoples imagination.
--Im just tossin an idea out here. A top F5/F4 bike at the very outside would cost say $1500 if you just tossed money at it left right n centre. Set of gear. $1000. --That would last a kid 3 years and be able to be passed down to lil bro/sis
Compare that to what the MX guys pay OR --and heres the twist--THE KART guys pay and its got real apeal.