New national school standards?

[ckai]

Also have a look at the sample report templates here and here - these are not going to provde people the hard numeric scores they think they're going to get. (AKA once again, you're being conned).

I mean, it's Tolley at work, you can hardly expect anything competent.

Certainly not. In saying that, if the teacher completes them correctly and doesn't put all the bullshit in, they look like they'll provide the feedback a parent needs (I specifically didn't say 'wants'). No doubt, by the time my kid is going to school, they will change again.

I suppose, if I'm honest, it comes down to this; if my kid is getting the well-rounded education they need, without disruptions from other students (god help him if he's the disruptor ), I don't care what the system is, as long as it does the job. The problem is education is a personal thing (different learning rates etc) and we just don't have the funding to provide the best system.

[Quasievil]

Give me both, mark and comments. But don't sugar coat it. At the moment I don't like the idea of being told someone has "achieved" something. I wanna know if they know it well or not.

errr yeah aint that what Im saying ?

[Swoop]

The "Achieved" grade is the scariest.
It means that the kid is bright enough to pass the assessment, BUT there is a large grey area above that before you get anywhere near the "Merit" grade.
A percentage score would identify this very quickly and enable educators, parents and employers to see who was only just passing, who was putting a bit more effort in and who were really striving ahead.

Sadly, we abandoned that way of thinking when "unit standards" came along.

[ckai]

errr yeah aint that what Im saying ?

Yip, agreeing with ya and adding my 2c (about unit standards)

[KiWiP]

But I've met a few young people in their 20s here whose heads have been filled with outrageous lies by teachers in this country.

If that was in the classroom then it was very unprofessional of the teachers involved. In the classroom there must exist balance and room for their own opinion to be formed. I have many strong views; war, 'isms, nuclear power and on and on but whenever I profess a view I make damn sure the pupils know it is my personal take and not necessarily the truth.

I see that as a bad thing, considering how many teachers have left wing views.

Sorry but that is such a sack of shit if for no other reason than you are accusing teachers of gross misconduct (coercing a pupils political viewpoint). It is a widely held view that because we promote unionism very strongly we are all carrot munching, hippy, marxists. Teachers are representative of all walks of life (we teach all walks of life) if anything there are more central political views as that is the world we live in (my opinion, no stats, no photos). We promote unionism as employee protection. A non union member accused (rightly or wrongly) of infractions very rapidly finds themselves unemployed. Union members have the backing of the majority of NZ teachers and get professional and legal representation when they need it. As a collective agreement is in place they also get a say in the terms and conditions of their employment. Which you would not get in any other non unionised state sector employment.

[Dave Lobster]

If that was in the classroom then it was very unprofessional of the teachers involved. In the classroom there must exist balance and room for their own opinion to be formed. I have many strong views; war, 'isms, nuclear power and on and on but whenever I profess a view I make damn sure the pupils know it is my personal take and not necessarily the truth.

My example.. girl in her early twenties, educated (!) at some catholic school in Ponsonby. Convinced, as she'd been taught it at school that WW2 was started by the Germans because they wanted to take all the jews money. Convinced it was fact, as she'd been taught it at school. If such a blatent lie is being taught with such conviction, what else is there?

Sorry but that is such a sack of shit if for no other reason than you are accusing teachers of gross misconduct (coercing a pupils political viewpoint). It is a widely held view that because we promote unionism very strongly we are all carrot munching, hippy, marxists. Teachers are representative of all walks of life (we teach all walks of life) if anything there are more central political views as that is the world we live in (my opinion, no stats, no photos). We promote unionism as employee protection. A non union member accused (rightly or wrongly) of infractions very rapidly finds themselves unemployed. Union members have the backing of the majority of NZ teachers and get professional and legal representation when they need it. As a collective agreement is in place they also get a say in the terms and conditions of their employment. Which you would not get in any other non unionised state sector employment.

Unions are there solely for the benefit of the people that SHOULD be booted out.
AND, teachers shouldn't be pushing any political direction, even if they do see it as a good thing - unions. Promoting unionism IS a marxist agenda.

[rainman]

But I've met a few young people in their 20s here whose heads have been filled with outrageous lies by teachers in this country. However.. leaving teaching to the teachers leaves them with a huge responsibility to teach the truth as they see it.
I see that as a bad thing, considering how many teachers have left wing views.

Funny, the only case I've come across in my experience (through my kids) of explicit political views being expressed in the classroom has been from a devoted Act supporter.

Anyway, spiner has some interesting things to say about JK's approach to the NS debate...

[MisterD]

Sorry but that is such a sack of shit if for no other reason than you are accusing teachers of gross misconduct

As far as I'm concerned the current campaign of state employees to defeat the expressed will of their employers is gross misconduct and should result in sackings. The long and the short of it is that there is absolutely no good reason why there should not be a nationally set minimum standard of achievement for basic skills. There is also no good reason for parents not being told where their child(ren) stack up against those standards.

The fact is that the teaching unions are dead-set against anything that might highlight the deficiencies of their members...the profession has been a refuge for the incompetent for far too long. The expression "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach." is not a truism for nothing....oh, and my Mum (a maths teacher for 25years) used to add: "Those that can't teach, teach teachers..."

[Dave Lobster]

"Those that can't teach, teach teachers..."

And those that can't do that become union reps.

[Winston001]

Good discussion.

I'm in the happy position of having my children finished with primary school but when they were there they had excellent education.

Our school did use individual child assessments so my wife and I always knew where each child fell on the national average. It was a vague dot on a tiny graph but as long as it was in the middle or to the right, the news was good. It seems to me this is what the govt want to introduce to all schools. Appears pretty harmless. Funnily enough though, this primary school's teachers are against the new standards which seems to be an ideological position.

As for ranking, I can think of another high decile primary school which is distinctly average in performance. However apart from the odd critical ERO reports (which most parents don't read) you have no way of knowing this school does not do a good job. I don't believe ranking is anything to fear because the clumsy decile system does it by default.

As for poor schools and lack of resources - the primary resource in your child's education is the teacher. There is plenty of research to support this. What is often missing however is family support for the child and the teacher is waging an uphill battle. All the interactive whiteboards, school halls, computers etc in the world make no difference if a child isn't nurtured from home.

[scracha]

Devil's advocate for a second - the current system simply isn't working (going off the number of illiterate kids leaving school), so If National Standards aren't the solution, what is?

Pump some real money into education. Have systems in place to retain the best teachers and reward them. Have systems in place to get rid off the worst teachers, and umm...don't reward them. There's no way you're gonna get many good teachers with the shit wages they're paid.

[Swoop]

"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."

"And those who can't teach, inspect"...

my Mum (a maths teacher for 25years) used to add: "Those that can't teach, teach teachers..."

A wise woman!

[KiWiP]

The expression "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach." is not a truism for nothing

MisterD - Selling test equipment to telcos. A 'can do' job (not a profession ) You've always got a job in teaching then

oh, and my Mum (a maths teacher for 25years) used to add: "Those that can't teach, teach teachers..."

Can't argue with that though

[MisterD]

You've always got a job in teaching then

I nearly did go that way and it's still under consideration as a career change once both boys are at school...the biggest downsides to becoming a teacher are 1) very limited ability to negotiate on my own behalf and 2) complete inability to earn more by being f-ing good at the job...

[Dave Lobster]

I nearly did go that way and it's still under consideration as a career change once both boys are at school...the biggest downsides to becoming a teacher are 1) very limited ability to negotiate on my own behalf and 2) complete inability to earn more by being f-ing good at the job...

There was someone praising union thinking earlier on in the thread.