"Bold steps" by the g'ment - changes announced at 2pm today

[Mully]

How does one feel about being lied to? ... i know it pisses me off (voted national here)

As far as the whole raising of GST goes ... really ... what's the point?

Personally, I like the idea of moving from a direct, compulsory tax to a descretionary tax - after all, you don't have to buy a new TV with your tax cut - it's going to help us reduce our debt even faster. (edit: by "us" I mean the wife and I)

I'm not convinced that Labour wouldn't have done exactly the same thing had they won in '08. (they raised GST last time didn't they? As I recall there were "promises" that it would "never" go above 10%) - I think Labour supporters are just using this occasion to put the boot in.

Plus I'm not convinced that National knew the state of the Government books when John Key made that statement.

Meh, as long as I'm better off, that's what matters.

As for being "lied to" - I'm ambivalent. All politicians are all full of shit all the time. No surprises there, really.

[Miscreant]

Sorry, I meant rental property - if you are buying a family home there isn't tax on the gain on that of course.

My point was if you buy a rental and claim "losses" against your income, it's pretty hard to claim that your intention wasn't making a profit come sale time.

Generally, no-one buys their family home soley with the intent on making money (if they add value, that's usually secondary to "security", as you said).

Agree with what you say with regard to quick buying and selling. I got some information from my accountant (not a bush accountant, unfortunately) who was with IRD for several years.

His opinion was that IRD have historically not caught this potential revenue stream (for whatever reason). I understand IRD added some resource to police this more lately.

Please stop digging skidmark. Is there no limit to your ignorance and the lengths you will go to to display it?
If you buy and sell houses for a living you are taxed on the profit on sale. If you are doing this as if it were a business, ditto you are taxed on profit on a sale. If you but infrequently buy and sell you are not considered to be doing so as a business and profit on sale is not currently taxed in NZ. Even in countries that have a capital gains tax, if the proceeds of a sale are reinvested you are frequently not liable for the tax.

It's great being on ignore. Finally I can tell the truth and numb nuts here won't argue his usual bullshit position.

[davereid]

Hmmmm, what would i do, hmmmm.... okay. I'd ban money, well remove the financial economy that we've all grown to love so much... off shoots should include, no need to have a taxation policy, everyone would be financially equal, crime would most likely drop to next to nothing, can't sell anything if there's no money. I'd introduce a task force to validate the necessity of businesses in the new financial less New Zealand.

Most likely financial institute employees, lawyers, accountants and businesses that provide no essential service to the country will be discontinued, or foreign companies would leave the country, what's the point in investment if there's no financial reward.

Un-employment would go through the roof. As there is no money this won't actually matter.

All i would ask in return is that NZ'ers would all work a 4 day 4 hours per day in their chosen field (that may need a little rework, but that'd be the aim, albeit you can train as a doctor/nurse/firefighter/police person/scientists/anything you fuckin like (skills you can use in a financial world should you wish to travel)). If you used to work in one of the financial institutes, help out a mate, take half of his working day and do it for him. If you know a farmer, take half of his working day. Food will still need to be produced, electricity will still need to be generated, as will any other "utility"...

No longer will a project be constrained by money and by default time. The infrastructure is in place, both governmental and communications wise, the emergency services will still be required, but if it's done correctly we could well become a self policing society. Don't get me wrong, people will still be people, but hopefully most of the idiots will settle given time and encouragement.

And so on and so on... I'd love to do a pros and cons list, but i can't find any cons!

Peace and love mutha fuckas!!!!!!

Interesting point about the amount of the average kiwis pay tied up in a mortgage. GST is not charged on residential rentals, or your mortgage, so for those who rent a home, or those with a mortgage, a decrease in income tax, and an increase in GST is great news. You will take home more, and you you will face only a minimal increase in your costs. For many, tax rates have already dropped like a stone, and any more decreases are great news. Consider - if you were earning $38k under the last government you were paying a marginal tax rate of 33%. Its already dropped to 21% and looks like heading lower.

[Skyryder]

Mallard smacked a guy for teasing him about rooting a chick - does that count?

Only if he was out for 'duck.'


Skyryder

[Coldrider]

Please stop digging skidmark. Is there no limit to your ignorance and the lengths you will go to to display it?
If you buy and sell houses for a living you are taxed on the profit on sale. If you are doing this as if it were a business, ditto you are taxed on profit on a sale. If you but infrequently buy and sell you are not considered to be doing so as a business and profit on sale is not currently taxed in NZ. Even in countries that have a capital gains tax, if the proceeds of a sale are reinvested you are frequently not liable for the tax.

It's great being on ignore. Finally I can tell the truth and numb nuts here won't argue his usual bullshit position.

If a property is bought and onsold before settlement, even as a oncer, you are liable for tax on any gain.

[Skyryder]

[url]

Will be interesting - what would YOU be doing if it was you having to make the decisions.

I'd sack Nick Smith for starters. Then call another election.

Skyryder

[MisterD]

As far as the whole raising of GST goes ... really ... what's the point? They give with one hand, and take with the other making a gain of zero to joe normal, meanwhile those at the very top and very bottom of the ladder will see some benefit at least, its the majority in the middle that are getting railed here.

GST is a tax on consumption - generally not such a good thing when dumb Kiwis borrow money from the apocryphal Belgian dentist to buy a flat screen telly....income tax is a drag on what you actually want, people going out, doing stuff and earning a couple of dollars. It's the middle ground that are getting done like kippers at the moment - after all, the 9 years of Cullen ended with a definition of "rich prick" as anyone on PAYE earning more than $70k.

The tax working group, or whatever they were officially called, called it right. PAYE'ers get hammered, the actual rich play games with companies and trusts and the bludgers sit on their arses and suck the taxpayer tit. We should be seeing a land tax to bring foreign land-owners into the system, (Shania can spare a bob or two can't she?) and I'm mystified as to why we don't have a tax-free allowance at the bottom end - I'm sure we don't get enough tax from minimum-wage earners to actually cover the cost of collecting it...

I'm giving the nats a C+ "must try harder" on this one - quit trying to boil the socialist frog and fry the fucker now.

[MisterD]

I'd sack Nick Smith for starters. Then call another election.

Skyryder

Might be a good call with Phil "in" Goof searching for relevance...

[Winston001]

Nobody wants to pay more tax - of any nature. However the Tax working Group found that after allowing for family tax credits, beneficiaries, and superannuitants, 10% of taxpayers are paying 76% of the total tax take. That is blatantly unfair.

So we have to find better ways of distributing the tax burden and GST is one of them. Everyone has to pay it.

[Coldrider]

...His opinion was that IRD have historically not caught this potential revenue stream (for whatever reason). I understand IRD added some resource to police this more lately.

There is no hurry, the Land Transfer Office has all land transfers electronically for the last six years, IRD can track a name or transfer and access all related data. Incidentially there is no statute of limitations for undisclosed property dealings.

[mashman]

Interesting point about the amount of the average kiwis pay tied up in a mortgage. GST is not charged on residential rentals, or your mortgage, so for those who rent a home, or those with a mortgage, a decrease in income tax, and an increase in GST is great news. You will take home more, and you you will face only a minimal increase in your costs. For many, tax rates have already dropped like a stone, and any more decreases are great news. Consider - if you were earning $38k under the last government you were paying a marginal tax rate of 33%. Its already dropped to 21% and looks like heading lower.

Correct, it's not, because the house has been built and someone else has already taken the GST hit. How can you justify a GST hit on a second hand house?... but GST is charged on every utility in that house. If you were earning under 38k and had a mortgage I think i'd wonder where you had been getting all of your money from. Most likely from your rental property, but as it's runs at a loss you can write that loss off against another one of your assets for a tax break, or apply a depreciation value to the chattels and because you can do this 1 thing, you can turn a 78k wage into a 37999k wage and save tax...

Swings and roundabouts. But the government says that the country is in a bad way, shockingly run by the previous government and an under paid workforce. Therefore they need to rejig the tax system so that we can all be better off?????????????? doesn't that mean the country will suffer????????? oh how can it be, because they had a crack at the tax system to get money from nowhere to balance the country's books????

[Mully]

There is no hurry, the Land Transfer Office has all land transfers electronically for the last six years, IRD can track a name or transfer and access all related data. Incidentially there is no statute of limitations for undisclosed property dealings.

Really??

Didn't know there was no statute of limitations.. I would have thought maybe seven years.

Interesting.

[MisterD]

Everyone has to pay it.

..and no amount of fancy tax lawyers will get you around that...I don't understand why it wouldn't be possible to leave it at 12.5% on food and make it higher on luxuries though...

[Coldrider]

Really??

Didn't know there was no statute of limitations.. I would have thought maybe seven years.

Interesting.

No limitations for undisclosed property dealings (or any other income), if the IRD have been misled, your in the gun, and chances are records have been biffed.

[Miscreant]

If a property is bought and onsold before settlement, even as a oncer, you are liable for tax on any gain.

The examples I gave are not intended as a complete and exhaustive list. I think it kind of obvious that they must be curtailed for brevity. I accept what you say, though that doesn't alter the principal. Without knowing the circumstances it is likely that the ird were sufficiently convinced that the intent was to trade for profit and as such it would of course be the correct decision by ird. However the point remains that under current law gains made on the sale of a rental property is generally not taxable.