"Bold steps" by the g'ment - changes announced at 2pm today

[Mully]

Key came up with tax cuts to win the election knowing full well the countrycould not afford them. Once in power one of the first things he did was to cancell them on the grounds that we could not afford them.

I got one.

[Pascal]

Keys is shitting on NZ...................like he did once before as a money trader

Oh God. I'm not even going to touch that delusion. But I like how you dodge the entire premise and turn it into an attack. Let me guess, voted Labour or Greens?

I got one.

I did too. Small one, but it was there.

[avgas]

heh I am enjoying reading this.
Half of you are aguing that Key is trying to screw us, the other half are saying we were already screwed by labour/greens etc.
Sad fact of the matter is you are both right.
How Patriotic of you to defend you right to vote for morons.

[Pascal]

How Patriotic of you to defend you right to vote for morons.

Heh. Good point! I've always wanted a "None of the above" option on my ballot paper. That way, rather than abstaining if none of them appealed, I could tell them they sucked and that, if enough people voted for "None of the above" they'd have to go back on the campaign trail and see if they could come up with something better.

'Course, the country always seem to run better when Parliament is stood down. We could keep it that way ...

[davereid]

Key came up with tax cuts to win the election knowing full well the countrycould not afford them. Once in power one of the first things he did was to cancell them on the grounds that we could not afford them. It's about the only honest statement he has made.

Marginal Tax rates went from 33% to 21% for a taxpayer on $38k.

Increasing any tax is a bad idea.

You can be sure that if Labour get back in they will not lower it, they will just put the fines for working back up.


After all, thats what income tax is. Its fining you for being productive.

I for one have learned from the process of being fined.

I don't speed much now-a-days, and I don't bother working much either.

[Mully]

I did too. Small one, but it was there.

Small, but perfectly formed. And gratefully received.

Maybe it's a choice thing that annoys them - for nine years they had Aunty Helen and Uncle Michael telling them where there money was going. Now they are going to have more of it in their pocket and they can choose to give it back to the Gummint (by buying stuff subject to GST) or not giving it back (paying off debt, saving it), they're all confused and angry.

[Tank]

Looking at the parties labour NZ is very close in approach and leaning to labour UK.

They have been in power 'for ever' it seems also.

Yes NZ (NAT) is looking at raising GST to 15% - In the UK labour have just reversed the VAT holiday and have returned VAT to 17.5%

NZ Nat is in return cutting the top rate to 30 or 33% to compensate - UK labour have raised their top rate to 50%

in NZ stats show that the majority of people moving to OZ are the lower income earners, in the UK stats show that people on higher incomes make up the largest proportion of leavers.

So - who do you think is heading in the right direction?

[Pascal]

Maybe it's a choice thing that annoys them - for nine years they had Aunty Helen and Uncle Michael telling them where there money was going. Now they are going to have more of it in their pocket and they can choose to give it back to the Gummint (by buying stuff subject to GST) or not giving it back (paying off debt, saving it), they're all confused and angry.

Could very well be

But you know us proletariat. We're too dumb to decide what to eat, where to live, which schools our kids should go to, how they should be educated and we're certainly not humane enough to care about our fellow citizens. That's all the job the government. Where would we be without them? Especially now that they're giving us some responsibility back!

[mashman]

Could very well be

But you know us proletariat. We're too dumb to decide what to eat, where to live, which schools our kids should go to, how they should be educated and we're certainly not humane enough to care about our fellow citizens. That's all the job the government. Where would we be without them? Especially now that they're giving us some responsibility back!

They're also giving us extra money too... But we can't spend it because we'll lose money because of a GST hike, which means putting it into the bank... which means making the banks richer... which means the really clever finance guys can invest other peoples money, syphon some off for themselves and soooo the world turns for the next 20 years until there's another recession!

[Pascal]

They're also giving us extra money too... But we can't spend it because we'll lose money because of a GST hike, which means putting it into the bank... which means making the banks richer... which means the really clever finance guys can invest other peoples money, syphon some off for themselves and soooo the world turns for the next 20 years until there's another recession!

On the plus side, after 19 years of saving you'll have a lot more money in the bank. Which you can then withdraw to:

(a) Use as a deposit on a house for your kids
(b) Part of retirement savings
(c) Buying a new house for yourself
(d) Buying a new bike
(e) Overseas holiday
(f) etc...

[mashman]

On the plus side, after 19 years of saving you'll have a lot more money in the bank. Which you can then withdraw to:

(a) Use as a deposit on a house for your kids
(b) Part of retirement savings
(c) Buying a new house for yourself
(d) Buying a new bike
(e) Overseas holiday
(f) etc...

Ha ha ha ha ha... and yet so wrong !!!! How can you save if you're already on or near the breadline. How can you save when you need the washing machine fixed? When you need new tyres for the car? It may work for the DINK'ys of the world, but by no means will that work for everyone... not even close i'd say...

In 19 years (inflation, rarity of resources etc...), bread will cost $100, petrol will cost $34 a litre... the cost of living is not a constant... and in all likelihood those who haven't chased that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow (not that that's a bad thing) will still have the same disposable income etc...

There's no plus side where money is involved.

[Pascal]

Ha ha ha ha ha... and yet so wrong !!!! How can you save if you're already on or near the breadline. How can you save when you need the washing machine fixed? When you need new tyres for the car? It may work for the DINK'ys of the world, but by no means will that work for everyone... not even close i'd say...

Wasn't it you that said:

They're also giving us extra money too... But we can't spend it because we'll lose money because of a GST hike, which means putting it into the bank...

And no, they're not really giving us extra money. They're letting us keep more of what we've earned.

[mashman]

Wasn't it you that said:
And no, they're not really giving us extra money. They're letting us keep more of what we've earned.

Yes and the second bit was even more sarcastic... it never translates well on interweb... Otherwise i wouldn't have mentioned the Peter and Paul thing a while ago.

[Winston001]

It's not fucked up if 10% of the nation controls 73% of its wealth

But that isn't the case. Reflect for a moment. How many truely wealthy people do you personally know? How many do you know of? I'm sure we can all name a few - the Todd family, Faye and Richwhite etc. But in reality NZ doesn't have many "rich" people. We are vastly middle class and personally I like it that way.

Most of the 10% who pay the 73% are just folks. You wouldn't notice them on the street. For example a teacher (no kids) on $55k will be paying their full whack. The kid in the supermarket pays tax. To avoid tax you need to have children so you can claim tax credits.

The changes proposed will mean that some property investors will pay more tax which IMHO is a fair sharing of the load. The extra GST is only 2.5% which is $2.50 on a $100 purchase. Sod all. But no-one can escape it and the well off pay plenty of GST which is why its an effective tax.

[Winston001]

It actually doesn't bother me too much. Michael Cullen and his ilk handed National a poisonous financial chalice, after frittering away 9 years of healthy, good surpluses on useless bullshit, Hip Hop tours, toy train sets and what not.

I agree with you but let's give Michael Cullen credit. He wanted to put reserves aside and pay down govt debt. Fiscally he was a conservative. Unhappily for him he was a member of a Cabinet which had many social agendas. So instead of building infrastructure, introducing tax cuts, and reducing debt, he was forced to front more govt spending. I don't blame him personally for the position Labour left NZ in.

To be fair to Aunty Helen et al they did what they considered was the right thing - redistribution of wealth. Apparently putting aside for a rainy day doesn't occur in socialist households.....