Greenpeace activist to be tried for piracy in Japan?

[firefighter]

He's no pirate that's for sure! A Pirate doesn't jump onto another boat waving a piece of paper! He should have sabotaged it somehow and jumped over board.

He's not French is he?

[Dave Lobster]

He's not French is he?

Did he surrender at the first sign of trouble?

[rainman]

It's only minor property damage. A few scratches. You're not harmed. You just have to ride around like a dick with scratches on his tank. It could be an act of protest against law-breaking Greenies?

You're letting your ideology blind you to law-breaking. It would be much better to actually solve this through the right process, get international support and work within the system. This mad vigilantism is not doing the whales any favours, because all it is doing is making the activists look like dicks to everybody but their hollow echo chambers.

I disagree with your accusation that I'm an ideologue here - I've said he likely will (and should) face consequences for boarding the ship, which is apparently illegal. I'd also like to see the Japs face consequences for sinking an NZ ship, and I'd like to see Key and McCully held to account for not doing their fucking jobs.

Plus, your analogy breaks down because scratching my tank does damage to my property, while Pete popping over for a chat and a citizen's arrest does not. Note, I'm not saying the action is right, just that it is not the main point. Both parties have long been doing wrong things - dismissing the one you disagree with because he did something illegal is just silly.

Why do you think people are out in the Southern Ocean fighting over this rather than using the "right process"? Possibly because the "right process" does not work? If the activists weren't there, the whaling would continue unopposed, or even escalate. Do you agree with that?

[onearmedbandit]

Lets say there's some 'boy-racers' out causing havoc while I'm in my car. Nothing illegal right, but doing something that I don't agree with. I decide to take the law into my own hands and start driving my vehicle in a manner to discourage them from continuing their 'anti-social' but legal activity. Suddenly I find myself in the crap, our cars are going to hit, bang, too late, my car is fucked nd their's only has a few scratches. Who should the police charge?

Then, I decide to enter into the boy-racers house (ooo, I mean 'break and enter') late at night. Not to smash them over, just to give them a bill for damages and to try to arrest the driver. Gee I wonder, why are not any of the authorities helping me?

[Tank]

I disagree with your accusation that I'm an ideologue here - I've said he likely will (and should) face consequences for boarding the ship, which is apparently illegal. I'd also like to see the Japs face consequences for sinking an NZ ship, and I'd like to see Key and McCully held to account for not doing their fucking jobs.

So the SS have sunk many a boat - all by illeagal means including using explosives. This is a statement of fact and they publicize this on their own website. Now you expect a) people to believe that the japs were in the wrong - not the people who admit to sinking other ships using the exact same methods on other occasions.

Yeah right - How about they get held accountable for that first - including terrorism charges for using mines in a port (sound familiar).

Key held accountable - Only thing I think he could do better on this one is give NZ's blessing to the japs punishing the guy to the full extent of the law. NZ does not need to harbour 'green' terrorist.

[Pascal]

I disagree with your accusation that I'm an ideologue here

You support and justify criminal behavior in support of your beliefs. That, to me, makes you a prime candidate for one.

Plus, your analogy breaks down because scratching my tank does damage to my property, while Pete popping over for a chat and a citizen's arrest does not. Note, I'm not saying the action is right, just that it is not the main point. Both parties have long been doing wrong things - dismissing the one you disagree with because he did something illegal is just silly.

No, actually it is not silly. Due process breaks down when you break the law because you feel you are justified in doing so. I will continue to dismiss people who do so as fools. Pete is a fool, not a hero.

Why do you think people are out in the Southern Ocean fighting over this rather than using the "right process"? Possibly because the "right process" does not work? If the activists weren't there, the whaling would continue unopposed, or even escalate. Do you agree with that?

Then fix the process. But taking the law into your own hands is not right. We live in a free, open and democratic society. We are trying to push the world forward to an elevated, responsible consciousness. But actions like those of Pete harkens back to "Me caveman, me club, me strong". He is an idiot.

[Tank]

The sinking of the Andygil (or whatever) - was not the japs fault.

the SS actually document and are proud of boats they have rammed and sunk - how the fuck do they expect people to believe that 'just this one time' it was someone elses fault.

So how many lives do you think they put at risk sinking the below (that they have painted on one of their boats)

[onearmedbandit]

Apparently I must spread some rep around sorry Tank. SS are like some members here, irritating the fuck out of others, and then when someone acts back they go complaining to the mod's, sorry I mean authorities.

Can we sinbin them?

[Mikkel]

the japs started it by ramming his ship (a far more dangerous breach of the law that has not seen them get any consequences as yet).

Whether the Japanese rammed their ship or not is open to contention. Otherwise there would have been consequences. I'd dare to say that both ships were to blame for the incident.

Delicious whales?

Is there any other kind?

The sinking of the Andygil (or whatever) - was not the japs fault.

the SS actually document and are proud of boats they have rammed and sunk - how the fuck do they expect people to believe that 'just this one time' it was someone elses fault.

The sinking of the Ady Gil has provided SS with quite a bit of media coverage. There is nothing than the SS wants more than media coverage - they are attention whores one and all, and terrorists to boot. (I'm not going to call them pirates, pirates are way more awesome than SS - and for the record guys with machine guns in rubber inflatables aren't pirates either.)

Imagine that SS had taken the Ady Gil into the south sea and found that it was hopeless at trying to obstruct the Japanese whalers. You're stuck with an expensive and fancy boat which you can't use for anything. Arrange for it to get rammed by a Japanese vessel, get the media coverage and claim the insurance. Sounds like media politics 101.

[imdying]

There is nothing than the SS wants more than media coverage

Of course, they're in it for the money like everyone else... sailing the high seas as a pirate isn't cheap ya know.

[Mully]

Of course, they're in it for the money like everyone else... sailing the high seas as a pirate isn't cheap ya know.

Eye patches and wooden legs don't pay for themselves.

And someone's got to support all the wenches.

[rainman]

So the SS have sunk many a boat - all by illeagal means including using explosives. This is a statement of fact and they publicize this on their own website. Now you expect a) people to believe that the japs were in the wrong - not the people who admit to sinking other ships using the exact same methods on other occasions.

Yeah right - How about they get held accountable for that first - including terrorism charges for using mines in a port (sound familiar).

Watson's a nutter and I have no problem with him being held to account for scuttling ships - as long as we're doing so how about we hold to account the nations which are violating the moratorium on whaling too? However, we're talking about the actions of an NZ citizen, Pete Bethune, and the inaction of our government, not Watson.

Then fix the process. But taking the law into your own hands is not right. We live in a free, open and democratic society. We are trying to push the world forward to an elevated, responsible consciousness. But actions like those of Pete harkens back to "Me caveman, me club, me strong". He is an idiot.

God, what idealism. What exactly do you think ordinary people can do to "fix the process"?

Sounds like media politics 101.

Sounds like baseless conjecture to me.

[Pascal]

God, what idealism. What exactly do you think ordinary people can do to "fix the process"?

Better an idealist than a vigilante. That aside though, do you have the right to vote in New Zealand? Moreover, thanks to a National government and a bi-partisan review of our electoral laws (Unlike when the Greens and Labour tried to swing things their way) you have the ability to agitate at election time to sway people to vote for the parties that support your cause.

So, do you have access to a printer? Can you eloquently state your case and actually create a flier? Can you walk the streets along with like-minded friends and drop it in mailboxes?

Or are you just talk?

[Skyryder]

Pete is a criminal. He has broken the law. Are you suggesting the NZ government should support criminals in attacking foreign nationals?



It is not a case of agreeing with them or not agreeing with them. I happen to agree and would like to see the whaling stop. But, I will not condone criminal behavior to achieve those goals. Why are you willing to support criminals?

Would you support a bike thief because you're a biker and you know he wants one? Why not?

There is a difference in supporting the person and not supporting the action. If you have read my post you will have discovered this.

Skyyrder

[avgas]

The SS are a bunch of pansie dicks. The whalers are doing an illegal activity.
How does putting Pete on that boat change ANY of this.
SS even stated it was mission impossible on what Pete was doing.
Either SS have brainwashed Pete into thinking he could get his money back from the Japanese or he an idiot.
As for the Japanese/NZ govt not doing anything - this IS true. I think NZ govt should have gone down (Te Kaha will do) and sent both parties home. People need to cool down over this situation, and currently our millions of dollars of navy are doing fuck all anyway.
So yes in summary
Japanese govt, Japanese whalers, Aus Govt, Nz Govt and SS are bunch of wankers who should step back, think about the situation, sort it out and pull EVERYONE the fuck out of the Antarctic.
Its like an interracial kindy of rich kids