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Thread: What's it going to take

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by freedom-wedge View Post
    This is but a few of the desired wish list

    The bill is meant to streamline search and surveillance, by redefining not only police powers but also the powers of over 70 government agencies- called ‘enforcement officers’ in the bill. However, the bill does much more than that. It effectively gives police powers to agencies such as Work and Income and the even the Pork Board.

    Dramatic Increase in Powers
    Basically, once this bill becomes law, state power increases and search and surveillance become open slather. The Bill treats a single search and on-going surveillance as one and the same thing. For example, installing a video camera in a home for a month is treated the same as a one-off search of a car; taking a copy of an entire hard disk (with all kinds of information on it, some possibly covered by a search warrant, other intimately private) is considered no different than making photocopies of business files, and all enforcement officers have the same powers, regardless of the purpose of their job.

    The Right to Silence
    When this bill becomes law, the right to silence will effectively no longer exist. Using an Examination Order the police can demand that you report to them for questioning. The criterion is that they suspect you of being involved with two or more people in the commission (or plotting) of any offence punishable by imprisonment. Even extremely minor offences such as trespass or disorderly behaviour would qualify.

    The only way you can refuse this order is to cite a bit of legal jargon: ‘Section 60 of the Evidence Act’ and claim ‘privilege against self-incrimination’. But even if you happen to know this, it may not help-you can be ordered in front of a judge where you then have to offer evidence as to why you would be likely to incriminate yourself if you talked: the ultimate Catch-22.

    Examination Orders
    Examination Orders last for up to thirty days and the only penalty available for refusing to comply is a maximum of one year’s imprisonment.

    These Orders weren’t part of the Law Commission’s original report to Parliament. They were inserted into the bill by the Labour government on the pretext that the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) was going to be abolished; but the National government has decided to keep the SFO
    .
    When the SFO was created, there were many of us who opposed it. We argued that sooner or later their powers would be transferred to the police and applied outside of the business context. We were right.


    The Right Not to Participate in Proving your own Guilt
    Current practice is that the police have to provide all the evidence to prove a person is guilty-next year they can sit back and order you to produce some of that evidence. Instead of getting a search warrant, they will be able to apply for a Production Order. This will require you to produce documents you are suspected of having (or will have in the future) and is available to any enforcement
    officer covered by the Act. If you refuse to supply the documentation, the sentence is a maximum of one year’s imprisonment.

    Surveillance Devices
    Surveillance devices include bugs, video cameras and tracking devices for cars. Currently, there are no specific laws regulating surveillance on private property. Police need a warrant to enter your house and install a listening bug. Video surveillance by police inside a house or other private place is currently illegal. Police do it anyway knowing that most judges will admit it as evidence. That will change with this bill. It introduces the concept of a surveillance device warrant, which can be obtained by any enforcement officer (not just police) under the same criteria as a search warrant – that is, the suspicion that the search (or surveillance) will uncover evidential material necessary for a prosecution of a crime. This equates on-going video surveillance with a one-off search.

    This contrasts to legislation elsewhere. In the US, Canada and a number of European countries, phone bugging and installing a surveillance camera in a home is treated as a much more serious invasion of privacy than a search. In order to get a surveillance warrant, police have to demonstrate that other ways of obtaining the evidence have failed. In the new bill, there is no such restriction.

    Plain View Searches
    There is no restriction on the use of any thing the police find during a search or surveillance operation. Using ‘plain view’, if the surveillance data shows evidence of a different offence than that for which the warrant was obtained then that material can still be used in court. The same applies for a search warrant. ‘Plain view’ is an opportunity to ‘have a nosy’ at what else is around.

    Warrant-less Searches
    Once you are arrested or even simply detained, the police and enforcement officers are able to search your home, workplace, car, friend’s home or any place with which you are associated, without a warrant if they believe they can find evidential material related to the offence. This power, combined with ‘plain view’ searches is a nightmare. Whilst you are sitting in the cells, your home can be turned upside down with no warrant.

    Similarly, a warrant will not needed to record a conversation when two or more people are talking if one person consents to a recording of the conversation. This person could be an undercover cop sitting in a meeting, someone employed by an ‘enforcement officer’ or a friendly person at the bar. A warrant is needed for a computer search, however this warrant allows them to have access to your entire hard-drive and then using plain view they can trawl through other information not on the warrant.
    Who wrote this?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Are you saying the police can detain you based on rumour?
    Have you heard of habeas corpus?

    And speaking of rumours and disinformation, you have yet to present one scrap of evidence for your meanderings. I mean, have you one example to back up your assertions?
    habeas corpus? as in Bring out the body, why yes, its being ignored largely these days, in favour of hear say, it will be as relavent soon as the presumtion of innocents,

    and yes they can detain on rumour, a rumour started on the crime line, I,m not anti police either, thats for the record

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by freedom-wedge View Post
    habeas corpus? as in Bring out the body, why yes, its being ignored largely these days, in favour of hear say, it will be as relavent soon as the presumtion of innocents,

    and yes they can detain on rumour, a rumour started on the crime line, I,m not anti police either, thats for the record
    Do you have an example?

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Who wrote this?
    its printed on a few websites, longer and more indepth available

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Do you have an example?
    the bills not passed but I have knowledge of misuse of the powers that the police have now, but its a he said she said issue unless I produce names times and other, all Im trying to do is to show you what could happen, and in my opinion what is likely to happen, there are some hard line law reformists who were in support of the bill who are now not so convinced should we say, The police can do just as good a job these days without having these tools added to their kit

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by freedom-wedge View Post
    its printed on a few websites, longer and more indepth available

    Why don't you acknowledge the author?

  7. #127
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    So you got nuthin', as usual?

  8. #128
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    Oh goodness, another idealist hippy about to get a KB pounding, whatever next

  9. #129
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    Oscar your a tough man, the draft bills there for you to read, its on the gov web page I been trying to paste a link but I,m a newbie I said that already

    I told my neighbour, 5 years ago that they were slowly implementing the install of water metres in Taranaki, he said bullshit man, I was watching him abusing the contratced council workers the other day for putting one in on his subdivided section, progress aye

    I yes as usual I got nothing, is my spelling getting better, I,m trying

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by imdying View Post
    Oh goodness, another idealist hippy about to get a KB pounding, whatever next
    grins, its the raising of acc levies for motorcycleists thats my biggest erk of late, yeah I,m idealistic and yeah taking a KB pounding

  11. #131
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    I can't decide wether to have crackers or popcorn....
    "Some people are like clouds, once they fuck off, it's a great day!"

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str8 Jacket View Post
    I can't decide wether to have crackers or popcorn....
    thats would depend, if you had cheese, I would go crackers, and if the popcorn was sweetend I think I would go that way, a B grade movie would suit natural popcorn,

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by freedom-wedge View Post
    thats would depend, if you had cheese, I would go crackers, and if the popcorn was sweetend I think I would go that way, a B grade movie would suit natural popcorn,
    Do you have cheese?
    "Some people are like clouds, once they fuck off, it's a great day!"

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    So you got nuthin', as usual?
    I see your location is stated as in a state of denail, I wish I,d noticed that earlier, grin

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str8 Jacket View Post
    Do you have cheese?
    Vintage cheddar, aged 18 months they say, and some blue, i prefer summerset crackers, does that say anything about me, poor taste perhaps, smiles

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