New Zealand Mums

[SS90]

Goonr has gone to work, but since I have an opinion about this and to answer your question Slyer, I turned 33 last week and Goonr is 40. But irrespective of our real age, he was asked for ID for booze on saturday and people often assume I am in my early 20's when infact I had my first child at 31. If I was plodding around the supermarket in my jeans and a t shirt would I be put in the bracket of low income earner, too young to have babies etc - quite possibly yes. When Infact I have had a career and will do so again once I have had my babes and Goonr earns more than enough. How fair is it to assume that the supermarket mums arent infact just like me and many other mums out there. We dont all have feral children, or bleach our hair. Its a sad fact that these people assume if you are at home with your kids you must bludge of the government or fall into a catgory of which people think you are at the low end of society. Waiting til you are older dosent mean you are safe from the fella running off, marriage break ups, redundancy, your partner passing away, there are a million reasons to find yourself either in the poo financially or without a Mum and Dads support. And Id think those situations make up a generous proportion of the single or no income families that require financial assistance. I know plenty of young Mums and a few solo Mums that do a bloody good job at raising their kids, and its not about having a dad, but family and support. As they say it takes a village to raise a child. Any fool can have a baby, being over a certain age dosent suddenly turn you into a wise old owl that knows how to do this parenting thing, its hard work. I bet youd struggle to find any Mum or Dad that knew exactly what they were in for when the made a decision to keep or plan a baby
People make choices based on the resources they have, unfortunately some people dont have too many options, but who the hell are we to point the finger at say thats not ok

I didn't take the OP post to mean "all women with kids at the supermarket are shit mum's", I feel you are taking it personally, perhaps too much so.

[CookMySock]

People make choices based on the resources they have, unfortunately some people dont have too many options, but who the hell are we to point the finger at say thats not ok

The government removes solo mums' consequences by providing additional resources, so they can move into their own home and then start their own life. The maths is simple - have two kids, get DPB, rent house, send kids out to play, do as they choose. So life might be a little low-quality, but hey ya rolls ya dice and ya pays ya money.

The story would be completely different if they had to live with mum and dad until they could find some way to support themselves (shock horror) or find some bloke with an income who will put up with their poor behaviour, or find some bloke who beat them up while paying the bills.

No one is telling anyone what is ok and what is not. We are passing our opinions back and forth, as friends on some internet site. Relax.

It's about what sort of society we want to live in, and who is going to pay for that. If push comes to shove you better believe the government will tighten its' support for solo mums, so the option is not so readily available.

Steve

[SS90]

who the hell are we to point the finger at say thats not ok

Tax payers, that's who!

[Slyer]

Don't make me agree with you DB, I hate when that happens.
Mrs GOONR, my posts are solely directed at the mothers who either don't put any thought into it when having kids or decide that they want to live off the system.

My comments about experiencing the world first are purely personal, I would have kids in my late 20's or early 30's but I can understand that some want kids earlier, that's their choice. So long as they are capable of supporting them financially and mentally. I won't tell anyone how to live their life but I draw the line when they involve their kids.

I'm all for supporting mothers that did the best that they could to provide for their kids but cannot any longer due to circumstances changing, illness and everything else, these mothers deserve our help.

[GOONR]

Im not taking personally as I am neither a solo or a young mum, or a low income earner, but I do have an open mind. I doubt that many people who fit into your category, made a conscious decision to bring up kids on the bones of their arse and stuggle from day to day, both financially and emotionally, and Id rather pay tax for those Mums or Dads to be at home doing their best to raise their babes into stable communtiy minded citizens. I know some of them dont succeed, but alot of people with loads of cash and support fuck it up too. Congrats to you if you have done it all perfectly, feel free to throw stones, lets hope you dont end up in their situation. Anyway I have said my piece and am signing out before this becomes mindless drivel

[CookMySock]

I don't think they are doing their best at all. If they were doing their best, they would have chosen a stable partner, attended to their own poor behaviour, got some training/support, and did copious amounts of sucking their guts in, tightening their belt, and shutting their mouth.

I think they started out selfishly considering their own lifestyle... or rather, thats how they thought it would be... sorry it didn't work out that way and now they have to sell drugs or themselves, but that was their preconceived idea that we all now have to pay for, now become OUR consequence not theirs.

Anyway, there is money to go around at this stage, but I don't think it will always be that way.

Steve

[Love my Bonnie]

DB, I hope you dont have daughters

[Str8 Jacket]

I don't want babies...ever
Im young and may change my mind (never say never) but right now I have a massive career ahead of me and just no desire to reproduce!

And my social life is pretty sweet

I hear ya chick! I am a probably quite a bit older than you and still feel the same way. I would rather get as many years of racing and building my career than reproduce!! I cant imagine making the required sacrifices any time soon either!!

[Ronin]

DB, I hope you dont have daughters

It's ok. If he does, his views will flip flop for them if they ever find themselves in that situation.

There are good parents, there are bad parents. Some are single, some have a partner (loving or otherwise). It is easy to pass judgement based on the 30 seconds you see them at the supermarket. The odds of your judgment of them being correct however is slim. I have delt with solo Mum's who fight tooth and nail to do the best for their kids, on the other hand I have delt with Married Mum's earning more money than I ever see that couldn't care less about how their kids behave.

Take 'em as you find 'em I guess but there is usually more to the story than you can see.

[Howie]

That would be true if they weren't getting any handouts from the rest of us that live within our means.

Why SHOULD having children and being dependent on welfare be a lifestyle option?

Is this comment aimed purely at solo Mum’s (parents)? If so it show's a real closed mind to what can happen in people's lives to change there personal circumstance's. Or is it aimed at the minority of solo parents that struggle with the choice's they have made, maybe through lack of support from family/friends to a situation they find themselves in. is it a lifestyle choice as they don't see other options being viable for them.

Goonr has gone to work, but since I have an opinion about this and to answer your question Slyer, I turned 33 last week and Goonr is 40. But irrespective of our real age, he was asked for ID for booze on saturday and people often assume I am in my early 20's when infact I had my first child at 31. If I was plodding around the supermarket in my jeans and a t shirt would I be put in the bracket of low income earner, too young to have babies etc - quite possibly yes. When Infact I have had a career and will do so again once I have had my babes and Goonr earns more than enough. How fair is it to assume that the supermarket mums arent infact just like me and many other mums out there. We dont all have feral children, or bleach our hair. Its a sad fact that these people assume if you are at home with your kids you must bludge of the government or fall into a catgory of which people think you are at the low end of society. Waiting til you are older dosent mean you are safe from the fella running off, marriage break ups, redundancy, your partner passing away, there are a million reasons to find yourself either in the poo financially or without a Mum and Dads support. And Id think those situations make up a generous proportion of the single or no income families that require financial assistance. I know plenty of young Mums and a few solo Mums that do a bloody good job at raising their kids, and its not about having a dad, but family and support. As they say it takes a village to raise a child. Any fool can have a baby, being over a certain age dosent suddenly turn you into a wise old owl that knows how to do this parenting thing, its hard work. I bet youd struggle to find any Mum or Dad that knew exactly what they were in for when the made a decision to keep or plan a baby
People make choices based on the resources they have, unfortunately some people dont have too many options, but who the hell are we to point the finger at say thats not ok

interesting comments Mrs Goonr, As someone who has been a single parent for the last Ten years since my youngest was 6 years old, I find it good to see that some people out there do realise that things can happen during a lifetime that aren't planned for, and that some people end up needing assistance, not because they want it as a lifestyle choice, but because events in their life have changed the direction of that life. In my case I got very little assistance from outside source's, but was lucky enough that I had a skill set that was needed by my employer and was able to negotiate hours, and times of work. At times I was in arrears to my employer by up to 40 hours, but still got paid and made it up later. If I hadn't had that flexibility it wouldn't have been worth my while to keep working.

I didn't take the OP post to mean "all women with kids at the supermarket are shit mum's", I feel you are taking it personally, perhaps too much so.

I took at as general comment at young women who choose to have a family young, I know some who did, and
are now in established career’s, with the children grown up and left the nest. These woman and their partners are now free to travel, take up any interest's they want at an age where many are still raising teens. What age to have children is an individual choice with your partner hopefully, and having them early, later or in the middle all have advantages and disadvantages.

The government removes solo mums' consequences by providing additional resources, so they can move into their own home and then start their own life. The maths is simple - have two kids, get DPB, rent house, send kids out to play, do as they choose. So life might be a little low-quality, but hey ya rolls ya dice and ya pays ya money.

The story would be completely different if they had to live with mum and dad until they could find some way to support themselves (shock horror) or find some bloke with an income who will put up with their poor behaviour, or find some bloke who beat them up while paying the bills.

I hope the last paragraph is a piss take as NO one should ever have to put up with abuse of any sort. Other than that an interesting concept, except that it would probably lead to another set of problems, due to over crowding of housing, which would result in more medical problems etc.

It's about what sort of society we want to live in, and who is going to pay for that. If push comes to shove you better believe the government will tighten its' support for solo mums, so the option is not so readily available.

Steve.

The problem is that as the support tightens, the options to break out of a cycle become less available, Do you want more crime, violence etc on our streets. What would you see as an answer?

Don't make me agree with you DB, I hate when that happens.
Mrs GOONR, my posts are solely directed at the mothers who either don't put any thought into it when having kids or decide that they want to live off the system.

My comments about experiencing the world first are purely personal, I would have kids in my late 20's or early 30's but I can understand that some want kids earlier, that's their choice. So long as they are capable of supporting them financially and mentally. I won't tell anyone how to live their life but I draw the line when they involve their kids.

I'm all for supporting mothers that did the best that they could to provide for their kids but cannot any longer due to circumstances changing, illness and everything else, these mothers deserve our help.

Interestingly enough that is the age I chose to have children, after doing my own thing for a few years, then buying a house, and settling down, but things can change unexpectedly, I for one don't judge someone by weather they have kids, or not at any particular age.

I don't think they are doing their best at all. If they were doing their best, they would have chosen a stable partner, attended to their own poor behaviour, got some training/support, and did copious amounts of sucking their guts in, tightening their belt, and shutting their mouth.

I think they started out selfishly considering their own lifestyle... or rather, thats how they thought it would be... sorry it didn't work out that way and now they have to sell drugs or themselves, but that was their preconceived idea that we all now have to pay for, now become OUR consequence not theirs.


Steve

A rather one eyed view I think, from the number of single parents I know very few if any planned on being a single parent.

It's ok. If he does, his views will flip flop for them if they ever find themselves in that situation.

There are good parents, there are bad parents. Some are single, some have a partner (loving or otherwise). It is easy to pass judgement based on the 30 seconds you see them at the supermarket. The odds of your judgment of them being correct however is slim. I have delt with solo Mum's who fight tooth and nail to do the best for their kids, on the other hand I have delt with Married Mum's earning more money than I ever see that couldn't care less about how their kids behave.

Take 'em as you find 'em I guess but there is usually more to the story than you can see.

I agree entirely Ronin, I have been in a supermarket with my kids after having been on a camping trip for a few days, with no facilities, yep clothes were dirty, I was unshaved, and it was interesting to watch peoples expressions when they looked at us.

[Number One]

So MANY evil bad mothers out there eh?! So easy to feel superior when you have the freedom to imagine all the worst things about strangers based on fleeting interactions.

I'm a bad mother....not because I burden the tax system by being on my own and "bludging" off everyone else to survive and feed my 'offspring' whom I tricked a poor innocent man into giving me

I'm one of those other demonised mothers....I chose to have a baby and after a year of being at home fulltime committed the ultimate sin of putting him into daycare so that someone else could parent him!!!! Forgive me forgive me

I selfishly chose to both 'be a mother' and 'career woman'....personally I can't imagine being only one of those things now....I also can't imagine just thinking of parenting a child as 'reproducing' either - sounds very scientific and actuaolly gooey I would have been disinterested too if that (and having my social life impacted) was all it had presented as meaning in my mind Might be a good campaign in high schools actually!

Perhaps I'm in the minority but having a kid actually hasn't held me back professionally, I don't aspire to be Director or CE or anything but do make a comfortable salary and have excellent personal freedom, accountability and flexibility...maybe that's more of a reflection of my chosen career but if anything having a kid has forced me to work to secure a balance between my 'work' and my 'life' and that has been nothing but positive all round!

Anywho your thread has made me giggle a bit and I enjoyed reading the responses....btw from now I on I promise to tart my self up whenever I go to the supermarket just for the benefit of local ignoramuses treading up the ladder of inference just like you so clearly enjoy doing...


NOT!!!!!!!!

[CookMySock]

I guess we are just all doing our best with what we have. Hey I wish I had the tools I have now 20 years ago! But anyway, here we are today getting on with it and being honest with ourselves.

I haven't done too badly with my kids - a few of you have met them and will know what I mean. I'm tough but not rough on them, and I think they get it. I tell them if they jump down some hole I warned them about, then don't come crying to me - and I think they get that too - personal responsibility starts with real consequences, and they better believe I won't rescue them if they fuck it up irretrievably, coz I won't.

Steve

[Ronin]

I guess we are just all doing our best with what we have. Hey I wish I had the tools I have now 20 years ago! But anyway, here we are today getting on with it and being honest with ourselves.

I haven't done too badly with my kids - a few of you have met them and will know what I mean. I'm tough but not rough on them, and I think they get it. I tell them if they jump down some hole I warned them about, then don't come crying to me - and I think they get that too - personal responsibility starts with real consequences, and they better believe I won't rescue them if they fuck it up irretrievably, coz I won't.

Steve

Parent of the year stuff there steve. It's when they fuck it up irretrievably that you should be there for them. Let them sweat the small stuff.

[Dave Lobster]

I'm one of those other demonised mothers....I chose to have a baby and after a year of being at home fulltime committed the ultimate sin of putting him into daycare so that someone else could parent him!!!!

How on earth is that a bad thing?

I selfishly chose to both 'be a mother' and 'career woman'....personally I can't imagine being only one of those things now....

This is normal all over the world. It's just here, with the women should be in the home backward mentality that is just catching on.

[BiK3RChiK]

The OP is talking about the lifestyle single mums we see and know exist in this country!

I can think of one who lives on our street, who is a career criminal as well, and is bringing her sprogs up to be career criminals. These people have no skills, no bright future. They laugh when your stuff goes missing or gets trashed ( they possibly had something to do with it ) and they don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.

These are the selfish people the OP is talking about..... and yours and my taxes pay for their 'lifestyle'. It's disgusting!

I can also think of the single mum who lived across the road, who went back to school and finished her 7th form year and is currently studying to be a nurse. So she made a mistake but she's not letting that hold her back. The OP is NOT talking about these types of solo mum IMO...