Liberals and atheists smarter?

[Motu]

I dunno man....I think liberal use of chemicals trying to find Dog has had a severe impact on my smarts....

[mashman]

The "Big Bang" could be disproved (in the sense that scientific opinion could reject it as a likely, or even plausible, event) by the discovery of new evidence (of sufficient weight) contradictory to that which currently stands. It is a valid scientific proposition as it is falsifiable. The assertion that God exist is unfalsifiable as it cannot be disproved.

Agreed.. I am, as I understand it, agnostic and completely subscribe to anything being possible, whether it be scientific, religious, governmental, human "failures/triumphs/rights/wrongs..." etc... is that what you're meaning.

As such, there is absolutely no reason why 'the "intelligent" ones' would be more likely to be agnostic than atheist.

If you were interested...

Ok, my definition of intelligence is being able to see all of the angles, both sides of any argument, being as reasonable as possible and yet still being human, for good-inbetweenbits-bad motives... in the case of religion... the agnostic "intelligent ones" would be in the in between bits, could be true, might not be

[mashman]

An atheist is a person who does not believe in a god or gods. There are no "if"s or "and"s in that definition and I don't see any "gotchas".

According to flickmybeenia there's implicit/explicit/strong/weak and a twist on strong/weak with positive/negative... i couldn't take it all in lol.

[Usarka]

Six of my friends hold, or are soon to complete, a Ph.D - broadly in fields of science and language.

Personally i think a phd is an intellectual paradox.

[Ender EnZed]

Agreed.. I am, as I understand it, agnostic and completely subscribe to anything being possible, whether it be scientific, religious, governmental, human "failures/triumphs/rights/wrongs..." etc... is that what you're meaning.

Maybe? I have no objection to your subscription of anything being possible. I can't see the future either. However that doesn't put the existance of God in the same category as the most scientifically established cosmological model of the creation of the universe. God could exist. If I drop a pen it could fly up to the ceiling in opposition to gravity. I won't know for certain until I let go of the pen.

Ok, my definition of intelligence is being able to see all of the angles, both sides of any argument, being as reasonable as possible and yet still being human, for good-inbetweenbits-bad motives... in the case of religion... the agnostic "intelligent ones" would be in the in between bits, could be true, might not be

I wasn't suggesting agnosticism and high IQ were in any way mutually exclusive. Just that it is quite alright to draw a conclusion that - whilst is not deductively valid either - is still far, far better than the alternative.

[Ender EnZed]

Personally i think a phd is an intellectual paradox.

How so?

10ch

[Edbear]

Thanks for the red SPB, I thought I was on your ignore list...

Still, if it makes you feel better or strokes your ego, you just go ahead and spread the anti-love...

[SixPackBack]

...............Did the article mention emotional cripples?

[Edbear]

...............Did the article mention emotional cripples?

Oh, well, if that's the case I guess we can cut you some slack...

[mashman]

Maybe? I have no objection to your subscription of anything being possible. I can't see the future either. However that doesn't put the existance of God in the same category as the most scientifically established cosmological model of the creation of the universe. God could exist. If I drop a pen it could fly up to the ceiling in opposition to gravity. I won't know for certain until I let go of the pen.

Unless before you left go of the pen a body in space with enough gravitational pull, passes by and the pen is taken from your hand... quite possibly along with you... True, God could exist and the big bang may have been Gods science experiment for deity school... chicken and egg i guess... The big bang and the resultant planet we're on, conflicts directly with how the stereotypical Christian (no offence anyone, just from my own experience) views how the Earth was created... So that's my reasoning behind throwing the 2 together. Yes I have made assumption and have the bias of it being my opinion, but that's how I got there...

I wasn't suggesting agnosticism and higher intelligence were in any way mutually exclusive. Just that it is quite alright to draw a conclusion that - whilst is not deductively valid either - is still far, far better than the alternative.

I suggested it... it's a possibility, it's also, what's your word falsifiable... the alternative exists doesn't it?

[Ender EnZed]

Unless before you left go of the pen a body in space with enough gravitational pull, passes by and the pen is taken from your hand... quite possibly along with you...

Even under those circumstances I still wouldn't know about it in advance.

The big bang and the resultant planet we're on, conflicts directly with how the stereotypical Christian (no offence anyone, just from my own experience) views how the Earth was created... So that's my reasoning behind throwing the 2 together. Yes I have made assumption and have the bias of it being my opinion, but that's how I got there...

I agree that the big bang conflicts directly with stereotypical/fundamental Christian views but the existance of God doesn't so I don't quite grasp your reasoning.

Regardless of your reasoning, the big bang could be disproved. As it is falsifiable. If it weren't it wouldn't be a scientifically valid proposition, which it most certainly is.

I suggested it... it's a possibility, it's also, what's your word falsifiable... the alternative exists doesn't it?

I'm going to apologise in advance if you interpreted the words "higher intelligence" as some sort of supernatural being (i.e. God), I meant a greater than average intelligence.


If you interpreted my words "higher intelligence" correctly then:
It is indeed falsifiable however to suggest it, which you are, you would (or you would seem to at least) be declaring that no one who is an agnostic (yourself included) is of greater than average intelligence.

I would dispute this on the grounds that there are many people who are agnostic who score significantly greater than 100 on an IQ test.


If you interpreted my words "higher intelligence" to mean God then:
What? Your reply doesn't make sense as agnosticism, by definition, has to include some concept of God. Otherwise it's just atheism.

[mashman]

Even under those circumstances I still wouldn't know about it in advance.

I agree that the big bang conflicts directly with stereotypical/fundamental Christian views but the existance of God doesn't so I don't quite grasp your reasoning.

The existence of God inherently comes with the creation of the Earth... on the 7th day he rested etc... No?

Regardless of your reasoning, the big bang could be disproved. As it is falsifiable. If it weren't it wouldn't be a scientifically valid proposition, which it most certainly is.

True... the same could be levelled at any theory that has some form of basis, irrespective of how concrete it is... whether it be taken on faith or is proven in some way...

I'm going to apologise in advance if you interpreted the words "higher intelligence" as some sort of supernatural being (i.e. God), I meant a greater than average intelligence.

If you interpreted my words "higher intelligence" correctly then:
It is indeed falsifiable however to suggest it, which you are, you would (or you would seem to at least) be declaring that no one who is an agnostic (yourself included) is of greater than average intelligence.

I would dispute this on the grounds that there are many people who are agnostic who score significantly greater than 100 on an IQ test.

I interpreted it as those of above average intelligence (If God exists then I don't think he's very intelligent... just take a look at the place )... same as your meaning... and my original definition of "intelligence" can be disputed irrespective of what I think... but... I agree with you and would personally class the "agnostic thinkers" as those more likely to have above average intelligence... primarily as they generally weigh up the pros and cons and undertake the course of action most likely to yield the "best" result (yes falsifiable)... But again, I realise that it's not a thick and fast rule and that we all think differently irrespective of our personal beliefs, behaviours etc... some put their own bias to the side and argue an "issue" logically... some don't... and while we're making up our minds the world turns into a shittier place, because money is King.

But that's just a theory...

[Mudfart]

They have started bible classes at my kids school. I was shocked to hear this, because I never read the letter the school sent out, asking for parents points of view. And apparently not enough people objected, so now its in all classes.
Im extremely disappointed, but thats what I get for living in a dominantly WASP rural area I spose. Cant wait to move! Effin morons. Sooooo righteous.

[mashman]

They have started bible classes at my kids school. I was shocked to hear this, because I never read the letter the school sent out, asking for parents points of view. And apparently not enough people objected, so now its in all classes.
Im extremely disappointed, but thats what I get for living in a dominantly WASP rural area I spose. Cant wait to move! Effin morons. Sooooo righteous.

Whilst i don't mind kids learning about religion etc... I would have thought in this day and age, that this sort of class would be optional... well, with a suitable alternative... Although if you're teaching Science in school... I suppose you should teach religion... or you end up with confusion and possible segregation of schools (and that'll be the parents choice... not the students)... as is the case in the US...

[puddytat]

The great thing about Religion (mainstream) is that you can Sin for 6 days of the week & repent on the 7th....

" Stained glass windows, its cold outside
While the hypocrites hide inside
with thier lies & statues to hide behind
where the Christian religion, made them blind
Where they hide & pray to a "god"
Of a bitch spelt backwards is dog
Not for one race or creed
but for MONEY, effective,absurd
Fat pig priest,sanctimonious smiles
they take the money, you take the lies
This is what they've done...this is youre religion."
J.Rotten & PIL (abridged somewhat)