Mining and Labour trying to fuck it

[Skyryder]

More tomfoolery from Brownlee

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10634219

This guy needs to engage his brain before making these sort of comments.

And further feedback to the Economist

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/n...ectid=10634022


Skyryder

[T.W.R]

Unless, because you're a HUGE mining company, you can just bring your own gear across the Taz?

The majority of Mining companies don't own their equipment, they're either leased or on hire. The state of earthmoving equipment brand new sales is very low.
When I was working at Huntly only a small amount of the machines operated by Baker Mining Ltd were actually owned by them, they inturn were working under Coalcorp and had won the contract at that time. They sub contracted to other earthmoving contractors with machinery that they didn't have themselves.
Their biggest purchase of equipment was the Hitachi face shovel that Doug Hood had purchased brand new when they had the contract (they'd used it for 9mths then parked it up). The shovel sat unused for nearly 2yrs before baker purchased it because it took them that long to have the cash to purchase it....unfortunately they'd under estimated it's operating capacity and even with 5 terex dumpers working soley with it they couldn't keep up (they had a 90ton carry capacity each) so Baker had to turn around and lease 4 Komatsu 120ton dumpers from overseas to work with the Hitachi. So due to production demands they'd set themselves to operate at a loss for a substantial amount of the contract term. Even just the basic operating conditions of the Hitachi were a huge expense...... a workshop built on site soley for it, a fuel tanker/trailer unit on site for it ( it used 900lt of diesel each 12hr shift) & a crew of 7 per shift for that one machine not counting the dumper drivers either.

[mashman]

...... what ever happened to a pick and shovel eh?

That's what worries me about these things... the lack of a plan. Someone with noble intentions would have pretty pictures of what would be left, when mining finishes... Perhaps the worlds largest covered water slide around the mine (that'd be fun), the biggest drop slide (that really could be fun)? who knows... but we have to realise that in order to do what they want, they have to sweeten the deal. If it was me I'd leave the place like a gigantic water theme park with glass pool levels from pit top to bottom (hey, i can dream if i like)... and covered. The community will need something quite spectacular to survive the mining when it stops in 10 - 20, 50 years.

Interesting information though... Cheers

[pete376403]

So don't know where you got those numbers...
193.7 milllion made last year of that 91 % stays in NZ- so not a big profit for Newmont

Thats an interesting number, too. Can you show where this comes from?

[rwh]

"Because we don't know", I believe we should find out, then make decisions on the "facts"

It would be a very different world if we could do that whenever we wanted. We have to make decisions all the time based on what we think is going to happen. So we need to modify that slightly, by not only thinking about the probabilities of what will happen, but what the consequences are either way. Eg it's probable I could survive a ride to Auckland in 5 hours, but the consequences of failure are too severe, so I don't attempt it.

Given the mining industry's record of cleaning up when they've finished (or operating cleanly in the first place), and what the results can be like if they don't, that comes down pretty heavily on the don't risk it side for me.

Especially when you consider that if you leave it in the ground, you haven't lost it - you can always come back to it when techniques are better and more proven, and the prices are higher ... and you've got more evidence of what can go wrong, so you can be clearer in your predictions. That means you still might decide not to go ahead, but if that is based on evidence that it will be catastrophic, then it's a good thing we never did, right?

Richard

[Winston001]

Given the mining industry's record of cleaning up when they've finished (or operating cleanly in the first place), and what the results can be like if they don't, that comes down pretty heavily on the don't risk it side for me.

Especially when you consider that if you leave it in the ground, you haven't lost it - you can always come back to it when techniques are better and more proven, and the prices are higher ....

Right on. I completely agree.

I'm all for growing our economy so we can afford great education and strong healthcare etc but mining in our national parks......the price and risk is too high. Forget it.

[oldrider]

Yes but technology is so much better today and methods are so much improved that in many cases you can't even tell they have been there!

In fact I can take you to places where the area is much better than before the mining was there!

[SS90]

While I applaud some of Nationals legislature, (some, I said some), this sort of nonsense is unbelievable.

We have a PM who has the nickname "the smiling assassin" when he worked for international firms, and his cabnet clearly are all the same.

I really only need two more pieces of information (other than an environmental impact report) to form an opinion on if this is a good idea or not.

1) NZ is stuggling economically. Is this a measure designed ONLY to bring some international (asian) investment capital in

or

2) Members of parliament stand to benefit from such an operation, like, for example, does any memeber of parliament supporting this bill stand to benefit from a mining operation in NZ?

I just can't shake the feeling that now that National is in power, and, the majority of the cabinet are "self made" capitalists, and don't need the income the government job gives them.......how can they justify going against what the public want.

Aynway, screw international buggers coning over here and taking our minerals (paying us only royalties, and nothing more), before sending them back to us as toasters etc.

If there is clear scientific evidence that NZ can handle such an operation, make it am SOE, employ some Kiwi's (managerial as well as workers), and keep all the profits in NZ, like the Aussie's do with their iron ore mines..........

International companies can buy or minerals, but they pay retail.

[Sach]

Sach.... Ixion is a grumpy cynical old bastard and if you are going to argue with him ( although I know you are dead right with your figures) You had better sharpen your pencil and your wit and clean up your post so that it is readable so that you dont get shot down by Ixion! what you have to say is valid and correct - but scruffy and hard to read.



Sach and I are two of hundreds here that are indiectly employed by the mine. this town is riding the crest of a financial wave because of that mine. 15 years ago Waihi was like Mangatawhiri, Pokeno, Mercer, Mangakino, Mangaweka, Whangamomona all are now. the mine has given people jobs, opened new businesses, built houses, supported schools and expanded social services.

cheers Stu i think i just gonna leave it, i wrote that after far to many beers last night lol... people should just come and see what the mine has done for Waihi and what they will leave behind when they do go before they rant and rave... its not all doom thats for sure like cave weta said they have done so much for Waihi and i hope they stay .

[Sach]

Thats an interesting number, too. Can you show where this comes from?

Yip directly from the head of Newmont here in Waihi.. The year before was 188.2 million with 82% staying in NZ. So more money is staying in NZ. Newmont use contractors for alot of the work and will get things done locally . They have planted 585,000 native trees that have been sourced from locals and they give laptops to the schools... the list goes on....

[T.W.R]

Yes but technology is so much better today and methods are so much improved that in many cases you can't even tell they have been there!

In fact I can take you to places where the area is much better than before the mining was there!

.Bollocks!.

[cave weta]

Yes but technology is so much better today and methods are so much improved that in many cases you can't even tell they have been there!

In fact I can take you to places where the area is much better than before the mining was there!

Absolutely OldRider!- Newmont use water from the ohinemuri river and when they return it downstream it is cleaner that where they draw it from. Newmont mine all over the world- The Waihi operation is constantly being visited by foriegn government officials who are invited to talk to our local Environment Waikato and Hauraki District Council with regard to Newmont's environmental and social practices.

.Bollocks!.

T.W.R - you need to step into this centuary and see current mining practices. what the media show is a big ugly hole because it is dramatic and that is what they are after- a spectacular story. The hole is mining history. Newmont's new mine Favona, just out of town as well as Talisman in the Karangahake Gorge and Broken Hills near Tairua- are all very hard to find. Fly over in a helicopter and you will just see a handfull of vehicles parked- if you are lucky.

If you are going to keep posting in this thread- then you should come and havea look for yourself at modern gold and silver mining and at the environmental and social improvements that have happened here in the last 12 years solely because of the Gold mining in this town.

[dipshit]

Minimal revenue from major expenditure. Fresh mines take years to even look like returning a profit and in the interim the outlay is staggering. Even to the point that some mines collapse before any sign of a profit is made. Look at Macraes Gold mine it took over a decade before it looked like making any hint of a profit

What T.W.R says is very true. The money and turnover involved in mining is huge. That doesn't mean to say the profits the company is raking off is as well.

The Macraes mine for example is Shell's second biggest customer of diesel fuel in NZ, second only to TranzRail. The money that changes hands and is pumped into the local economy from the work created and the infrastructure and support that is needed in itself creates a lot of income for the country from the tax collected alone. And that is money into the country generated from selling the gold offshore.

The mining company itself doesn't necessarily have a lot of surplus profit sitting in a bank account for its shareholders though.

[dipshit]

Absolutely OldRider!- Newmont use water from the ohinemuri river and when they return it downstream it is cleaner that where they draw it from.

Agree. There is nothing wrong with the river below Macraes. You can fish in it and a couple of small towns draw their water from it.

Providing of course the tailings dam holds.

[cave weta]

What T.W.R says is very true. The money and turnover involved in mining is huge. That doesn't mean to say the profits the company is raking off is as well.

The Macraes mine for example is Shell's second biggest customer of diesel fuel in NZ, second only to TranzRail. The money that changes hands and is pumped into the local economy from the work created and the infrastructure and support that is needed in itself creates a lot of income for the country from the tax collected alone. And that is money into the country generated from selling the gold offshore.

The mining company itself doesn't necessarily have a lot of surplus profit setting in a bank account for its shareholders though.

I dont want to keep picking on T.W.R. but MacRaes was started from scratch. Here in the Coromandel, Newmont have an $80million processing plant and all the extraction equipment ready to go. in 2004 when they started the Favona incline, they were extracting paydirt within 20months.