ATGATT. Why? It doesn't affect anyone else?

[caseye]

Now Kim all KB'ers should know How to wave too but telling em that is another story. Not to be making light of your suggestion, it is a good one, but for almost the same reasoning as some won't/don't wear protective gear some would absolutely refuse to do it.
Someone with first aid knowledge can quite simply save an ordinary persons life if they can apply it without becoming so distressed themsleves that they dont get it right.
These days an ordinary citizen is discouraged to grab a garden hose and put it on a neighbours house fire, in case THEY get hurt.
I hope like hell my neighbour has the balls and the desire to make sure we're all out of the house before he runs away from a perfectly good garden hose.
Anyway, while I've not done a refresher for quite sometime i'm hoping I dont have to practice to many times a year so I'll probably get by with what i do know.
Take care out there and good luck with the Restricted aye mate.

[yungatart]

Nice to hear from you JD. Sorry I got your dander up, not my intention at all.
YOU took the time to put on your gear, I'm sure that your attitude was reasonable, and your attention on what you were doing would likely have been right up there too.
Mr Vinyl Jacket man did none of those things, he's not the only one, either.
Peoples rights these days outweigh their responsibilities by miles. We even bring up our kids and educate them in this belief. Hell, we even legislate for it!
My point was that what you do can/does affect others and a cavalier attitude can affect people even more.

[FJRider]

Perhaps, the fact your headlight was on FULL, was the problem! The next f**ker that rides towards me with his headlight on FULL, will get a front wheel full of Hiace van and roobar! (if I'm in the van!)
I have twice been near blinded by bikes with their headlights on full beam during the day in the last month alone - next time, I might be blinded to the extent of running in to them!

Considering it was pissing down with rain at the time ... and he saw the pukeko ... cant have been that "blinded"

[Bikemad]

This has made me think hard "go do a first aid course" ALL motorcyclists should have their first aid cert! Surely!

yep good idea RG............and please dont call me shirley

[Jonno.]

This has made me think hard "go do a first aid course" I need it for work too... but its not a must for work... this kinda thing is... I came across a young 20 something on a bicycle once no helmet, he had a epileptic fit while cycling, and I could not face the blood, luckily there were people close by that I yelled for ... but this is another big reason... ALL motorcyclists should have their first aid cert! Surely!

I did a workplace first aid course, best 160 dollars I've ever spent.
Especially if it saves someone's life!

[Tricia1000]

Seeing people out riding without gear, appropriate licence etc as outlined in the first post does indeed upet me. Most of you would know me as a motorcycle instructor. The reason I became an instructor was because i had seen the result of too many m/c crashes where rider or pillion were not wearing appropriate protective gear. I might add at this point that I work in an operating department, puting motorcyclists back together after their crashes. I have seen injuries that would not have occurred if proper gear had been worn.
the worst injury I have ever seen was a 19 year old, who with pillion on back, had been drinking, and decided to ovrtake the car that he was following. He misjudged the gap between the car he was following and the oncoming car. He was thrown forward over the handle bars, de-gloving his scrotum on the way.
when he came to theatre, most of the flesh on his upper thighs was missing, as was his scrotal sac. His testes were "hanging in the breeze". This guy endured a further five years of skin grafts, and will never be able to father children. the pillion died at the scene.
So please don't say that it doesnt affect other people, because IT DOES.
Tricia1000

[RDjase]

yep good idea RG............and please dont call me shirley

Sounds like a line out of Airplane !

Are you doing the Taupo track day next saturday mate?

[James Deuce]

You guys are missing my points completely.

It doesn't matter what gear you wear, any accident you are involved in affects other people.

@ Tricia - I've seen the lower half of a leg de-gloved due to a foot being removed by chain and sprocket. The victim was wearing good boots. For every example where people weren't wearing gear I can find an example where gear made no difference or added injuries that the victim wouldn't have sustained.

I am JUST like vinyl guy, particularly to the people who matter. I'm just another motorcycle accident. ATG (apart from a helmet) isn't important in that respect and most of the general public would hold that there was no difference between me and vinyl jacket dude. The fact that motorcyclists see my gear as better than vinyl jacket guy's is simply splitting hairs for ACC, NZTA, the Police, any other emergency services the and non-motorcycling public.

The whole argument is pointless. Motorcyclists argue that their own freedom of expression is paramount, but are happy to hammer anyone else for expressing a different view or attitude, even going so far as to argue for legal compulsion being a legitimate response.

The antithesis of freedom.

I don't know about you, but the motorcycle is almost the definition of freedom for me, despite getting hurt every single time I fall off.

[Edbear]

You guys are missing my points completely.

It doesn't matter what gear you wear, any accident you are involved in affects other people.

@ Tricia - I've seen the lower half of a leg de-gloved due to a foot being removed by chain and sprocket. The victim was wearing good boots. For every example where people weren't wearing gear I can find an example where gear made no difference or added injuries that the victim wouldn't have sustained.

I am JUST like vinyl guy, particularly to the people who matter. I'm just another motorcycle accident. ATG (apart from a helmet) isn't important in that respect and most of the general public would hold that there was no difference between me and vinyl jacket dude. The fact that motorcyclists see my gear as better than vinyl jacket guy's is simply splitting hairs for ACC, NZTA, the Police, any other emergency services the and non-motorcycling public.

The whole argument is pointless. Motorcyclists argue that their own freedom of expression is paramount, but are happy to hammer anyone else for expressing a different view or attitude, even going so far as to argue for legal compulsion being a legitimate response.

The antithesis of freedom.

I don't know about you, but the motorcycle is almost the definition of freedom for me, despite getting hurt every single time I fall off.

I think I see your problem...

[James Deuce]

Get fucked Ed.

[FROSTY:Me]

My experience this weekend wasw compared to the OP's post kinda funny. Jorja and I went to Paihia for the weekend on our bikes. staying int he same hotel was a young couple on matching cbr's. They arrived wearing all the flash gear. Next morning off out for the day. Him in shorts n sneakers. Her in a skirt and ladies sandles. on their bikes. I shook my head thinking hmm that'll hurt if sunmmat happens.- But it diddn't and looks like they had fun.

[thealmightytaco]

You guys are missing my points completely.

It doesn't matter what gear you wear, any accident you are involved in affects other people.

@ Tricia - I've seen the lower half of a leg de-gloved due to a foot being removed by chain and sprocket. The victim was wearing good boots. For every example where people weren't wearing gear I can find an example where gear made no difference or added injuries that the victim wouldn't have sustained.

I am JUST like vinyl guy, particularly to the people who matter. I'm just another motorcycle accident. ATG (apart from a helmet) isn't important in that respect and most of the general public would hold that there was no difference between me and vinyl jacket dude. The fact that motorcyclists see my gear as better than vinyl jacket guy's is simply splitting hairs for ACC, NZTA, the Police, any other emergency services the and non-motorcycling public.

The whole argument is pointless. Motorcyclists argue that their own freedom of expression is paramount, but are happy to hammer anyone else for expressing a different view or attitude, even going so far as to argue for legal compulsion being a legitimate response.

The antithesis of freedom.

I don't know about you, but the motorcycle is almost the definition of freedom for me, despite getting hurt every single time I fall off.

That's quite thought provoking, and very reasonable. Similar to the "everyone but me drives too slow or like a maniac" problem.

Indeed none of us want to clean up other people off the floor, regardless of what they were or weren't wearing, but who are we to judge, really. I've got a good friend who wrapped his car around a tree at 50k back when we were learning to drive, but he wrapped the drivers side around it. If he'd worn his seatbelt that day he'd be mush, but he didn't and he got pinged over into the passenger seat instead, completely unscathed. Not that I don't wear my seatbelt, hate not wearing it, but if I got in a slide and saw a tree coming at my door I might think about unclicking it.

Education and personal experience will guide us, but all in all we have to sort our own shit out and leave everyone else to sort theirs, no matter how differently they look at it to us.

Queue religious analogy and extreme SS v3.02 flame war....

[MSTRS:Me]

You guys are missing my points completely.

It doesn't matter what gear you wear, any accident you are involved in affects other people.

Not missing that point...
And you are absolutely right. Gear or not, someone else is likely to be affected by one's crashes. And since some injury is almost guaranteed in a crash, why do we gear up, then?
It is, and should remain, our choice. But if we choose not to gear up, we should expect that potential injuries will be greater, which in turn has a greater effect on others. Too many don't appear to realise this...hence the attitude the first post rails against.

[Edbear]

Get fucked Ed.

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Not missing that point...
And you are absolutely right. Gear or not, someone else is likely to be affected by one's crashes. And since some injury is almost guaranteed in a crash, why do we gear up, then?
It is, and should remain, our choice. But if we choose not to gear up, we should expect that potential injuries will be greater, which in turn has a greater effect on others. Too many don't appear to realise this...hence the attitude the first post rails against.

I agree, and no offence intended to JD, I can resist anything but temptation. The OP was simply making the point that some say their decision whether or not to wear appropriate gear only affects them when it is plainly obvious that it does affect others. As another poster said, too, JD was wearing the gear again by his own choice, yet still suffered terribly from the accident. I'm sure, JD that you will continue to wear riding gear, albeit maybe a different type?

It was your original post, JD, that had me decide that maybe the standard armour in my gear was the best and not to get hard armour in addition. Your original post about your accident simply reminded me that we do our best to minimize risk and after that we hope for the best. Just because we wear armour, we should not be complacent, falling off hurts!

[Berries]

It might be a bit simplistic, but shouldn't the aim be to try and not crash ? If you crash at speed, whatever you are wearing, you are going to impact on other people. The problem with vinyl jacket man was that he rode like a dick and crashed. Granted, if he had had all the gear on then maybe the effects on bystanders may not have been as traumatic, and he might have a got a bit more sympathy from people on here. To the powers that be it is just another bike crash and that is what they will consider when looking at future legislation. They aren't going to accept the numbers and think they'll solve things by introducing clothing standards or whatever. The numbers have to come down and that will be the focus, by whatever means they come up with, most of which I am sure we won't like.

You would think ACC would be a bit more concerned abut injury severity and clothing standards as it is they who pay out. ACC have been done to death on here though so I'll leave that one well alone.