Collateral murder

[robertvi]

'legal combatants'? i see men casually milling around on the street, some holding 'objects' which could be almost anything (some are know known to have been cameras). of course the Pentagon will want us to believe 'insurgents' were involved, but there's no clear evidence for this from the video

[Hans]

'legal combatants'? i see men casually milling around on the street, some holding 'objects' which could be almost anything (some are know known to have been cameras). of course the Pentagon will want us to believe 'insurgents' were involved, but there's no clear evidence for this from the video

LOL, don't make me watch the whole twenty minutes again, just so I can point out the exact times, where the weapons are clearly visible. In a place like Iraq, it goes somewhat like this: You carry a gun, you're fair game. You carry soemthing resembling a gun without giving it a second thought, you're a Darwin Award candidate. You stick around when people are carrying weapons, same applies.

[Smifffy]

'legal combatants'? i see men casually milling around on the street, some holding 'objects' which could be almost anything (some are know known to have been cameras). of course the Pentagon will want us to believe 'insurgents' were involved, but there's no clear evidence for this from the video

Yes, the ones with the cameras are the ones that got the benefit of the doubt in my earlier post, however, as you point out, they were milling around with others, whose motives were not quite so clear, probably because they figured it would make for a great photo op and make them loads of capitalist dollars as they recorded the deaths of these "local heroes" standing up to the infidel invaders.

Bit of bloody bad luck then.

Do you think it would be a good idea to head to a war zone and hold something long, round and black to your eye, (as if to aim) at something like an attack helicopter?

[wbks]

Do you think it would be a good idea to head to a war zone

Stop right here...

[Smifffy]

Stop right here...

But why? Surely it is one's inalienable right to go to a war zone, hang out with the local insurgents and be guaranteed free from harm?

[wbks]

But why? Surely it is one's inalienable right to go to a war zone, hang out with the local insurgents and be guaranteed free from harm?

I agree, but I think that while this publicity is based in how they weren't actually combatants, the only reason we're hearing about it is because some dickheads think that they should say a few prayers for the soon to be deceased before firing... I mean, it's one thing to kill multiple people, but another to talk "nonchalantly" about it "like it's a video game"... Wank

[Hans]

But why? Surely it is one's inalienable right to go to a war zone, hang out with the local insurgents and be guaranteed free from harm?

Or so they thought. The word "PRESS" ain't at all useful when it comes to stopping 30mm rounds.

[Smifffy]

I agree, but I think that while this publicity is based in how they weren't actually combatants, the only reason we're hearing about it is because some dickheads think that they should say a few prayers for the soon to be deceased before firing... I mean, it's one thing to kill multiple people, but another to talk "nonchalantly" about it "like it's a video game"... Wank

aahh, thanks for clearing that up, so the problem isn't the fact that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but that they weren't dispatched in accordance with Halaal certification.

Frssskkkn insensitive military!

[wbks]

What's what I got from watching that wikileaks guy's speech on 3news

[Swoop]

Not bad shooting for the range - judging by the time lapse between the gunfire and seeing the bullets starting to strike.

The range of 1500m is fairly normal but much longer is possible due to the machine calculating all the variables and automatically adjusting. 1100metres is knife-fighting distance in the Apache.
127x magnification daylight cameras can read a car numberplate 4.2km away.

[Jonathan]

The gunship was heading to a location where some soldiers had been pinned down by small arms fire and RPGs and so I think the gunship's behaviour was understandable if not reasonable up to the point where the van comes to pick up the injured. It was here that their actions became unacceptable.

The Geneva convention Article 3 states:

(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed ' hors de combat ' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) taking of hostages;

(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

(2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.

[oldguy]

Something I will never understand, killing people who are trying to help the wounded, they never shot the wounded guy, as he didn't pose a threat, on the arrival of the van to pick him up, they fired on the van and its occupants.
I thought the Rules of engagement, never fire unless fired upon, I know it don't count in this situation though.

[SS90]

Has anyone else considered the possibility that the van that stopped to pick up people was indeed "Iraqi insurgents"? If it was press,

1) there would be no children in it
2) It would be marked "Press"

So, if it wasn't press in a war zone, why did they risk their lives to pick up men killed by American forces? Joy ride perhaps?

I cynical person cold deduce that there was indeed insurgents there (I too saw what looked like weapons on some men....do you notice how the video only highlights what is a camera, the other weapons are not highlighted....why?), and, when the helicopter attacked, some of the insurgents buddies came to help survivors, the kids are simply "human shields"

I cannot believe that a random family, travelling around Iraq in their Mazda bongo, kids in tow, stopped to help some seemingly armed men in a war zone.

Life is not like that.

[SS90]

Something I will never understand, killing people who are trying to help the wounded, they never shot the wounded guy, as he didn't pose a threat, on the arrival of the van to pick him up, they fired on the van and its occupants.
I thought the Rules of engagement, never fire unless fired upon, I know it don't count in this situation though.

If a wounded man is trying to reach a weapon, you may fire upon him.

[wbks]

When you're getting shot at by "them" constantly you probably just want "them" to die once you get a shot... Fuck giving them treatment