End revenue deaths - conquer the RAM

[shrub]

So, just start telling them something different.
These people have a responsibility to correct some of what they've been forcing on us all.

They may have a responsibility to do that, but they have been tasked with making speed an all-encompassing demon. I believe it has been chosen because it is very easy to police and prosecute compared to, say, driver inattention and that it gives them an excuse "we're doing something about the road toll - we're cracking down on speeding".

And can you honestly imagine Our Masters admitting that speeding isn't that bad after all?

[MSTRS:Me]

'That' TV ad...

Everyone does that along here
It's where a lot of the crashes are happening

In view of targetting speed, and cops U-turns, it doesn't take much extrapolating, does it?

[candor]

People believe what they're told to believe.

What if they're told to believe that MoT says its quota system doesn't work but we must try to believe it does.
I will send the whole RAM paper trail to a KBer who offered to put it on the net, as I lack know how. Then y'all can judge the level of criminality down at MoT for yourself - or technically at the NRSC as is is the agency dictating and providing the allowable economic packages to Ministers.

[Pixie]

What if they're told to believe that MoT says its quota system doesn't work but we must try to believe it does.
I will send the whole RAM paper trail to a KBer who offered to put it on the net, as I lack know how. Then y'all can judge the level of criminality down at MoT for yourself - or technically at the NRSC as is is the agency dictating and providing the allowable economic packages to Ministers.

Can't wait to see and distribute this info.

[Ronin]

Just to clarify it is a top level group within MoT called NRSC but controlled by outside advisors (world bank) dictating behind scenes.

While I fully support any effort to make our roads safer for all users, I got to the point above and gave up. I have seen far to many collections of conspiracy theories reference the world bank. Makes it difficult (for me anyway), no matter how well researched or intentioned your efforts are to read any further.

[candor]

While I fully support any effort to make our roads safer for all users, I got to the point above and gave up. I have seen far to many collections of conspiracy theories reference the world bank. Makes it difficult (for me anyway), no matter how well researched or intentioned your efforts are to read any further.

Then essentially you give up on safety and give into the conspiracy to target your wallet. Tony Bliss is lead LIMC transport lender. He was the strategy director that set up LTSA as a transport economics research agency in part. He came from working for Australian Transport agencies in 1994 as a consultant there. His "achievements" in NZ were creating the overarching strategy for road safety called "Safety Directions". He co-wrote safety directions working papers 1-7 then the manual for the resource aloccation model Safety Directions. His name. along with current advisors of the NRSC is on the ongoing MoT study "to develop and refine a resource allocationb model for road safety".

This model is the mathematical quota formula mentioned in safety directons working papers as the way to fund services. He was working for Treasury and LTSA at the time. He took up employment with the world bank in 2002. In 2002 (after this) he attended a meeting of the NRSC and advised applying the RAM study in real life. MoT objected. He said politics must not stand in the way. At the next meeting the Minister Hawkins was reported by Police Ciommissioner Rob robinson as consenting to the increase in tickets.

Tony Bliss and Rob Robinson (who the World Bank publicly credits with implementing the NZ RAM) recently toured Africa offering loans to buy speed cams and patrol cars and breathalysers, using the NZ model as an example of "good practice" and misreporting the benefits. Bliss proceeded on to the Easterm bloc again misrepresenting NZs benefit/costs. And he is telling Sweden to switch to the NZ way FFS! He is also responsible for running the global decade of safety initiative with UN/ World Bank support. It's goal is to sign everyone on to the NZ way, using loans with strings. His loans contracts require an authoritative WB advisor to the National r/s Committees which present policy to Ministers. Don't be fooled it is not MoT that does this here in NZ. It's NRSC advised by Tony et al.

Last year Roadpol the global traffic police headquarters which has a website promoting the NZ way set up in Wellington. It offers Nz Police to go and play big brother to countries that have taken world bank "road safety" loans from Tony Bliss. Vietnam has been partnered with NZ and their loan contract with the WB requires adherence to World Bank dictation and suppression of non quota education and issues. HC lately met with Tony Bliss, when he was out here to see MFAT about the "road safety ie revenue lessons" twinning arrangements.

The global road safety partnership (which Bliss is heavily involved in) has NZ listed as one of its 13 case studies reported back to it since 2002. A review by Swedish Development Agency SIDA of GRSP programs said they are not evidence based or properly reviewed, a concern as SIDA part funds. The Police are publishing internal reviews of our on road enforcement research and sharing such papers with the Oz Police and Monash University Accident Research Centre (set up with World Bank and Who help). Papers relating to the RAM research here are published in the ERSO policy think tank website as part funded funded by the European Commission. An agency advised by guess who - Tony.

So the fact is that Tony of the world bank set up NZs experiment (it's all over his CV), has ongoing involvement, and is selling the very model he developed through an agency "Road pol" that he has helped set up in NZ. It could be a conspiracy only there are just too dmn many facts getting in the way here that instead infer high level cock up.

Oh and then there is the fact that a friend of Blisses told me that Bliss complained to him that I had got one of his NZ men Dr Guria Economist and RAM project scientist moved from MoT to NZIER, as I got documents showing a cavalier attitude to the experiment and bandied them about.

The document where Dr Guria said that the RAM system doesn't work to predictions (it increases the road toll) but the Govt needs to try and believe it does. This seems a very unscientific approach to transport economics research huh. the Govt then lied to me (back in 06 I think) and said the research is now on hold. Disproved by a letter to Akilla Foundation that was forwarded to me in which MoT made a contradictory claim of stopping theresearch in 2008. It has never stopped.

Now if none of this is true I'm guilty of slander. I'm waiting for the lawyers calls at Candor Trust - but I know there won't be any and I'm not going to loose my house over this. As it's all true. We got the whodunnit solved. We just need to stop the crime in progress.

The sad thing is I think this Economist gang set out with good intentions, but now they've worked on this for 15 years, are myopic and things have gone too far to allow a graceful retreat.

[StoneY]

Candor-

Your posts are way too long to follow, please compress the information and provide links to the sources
The super long overly emotive way your writing is not making it easy to assimilate therefore 90% of the thread readers will just pass your posts and miss the vital information you DO have

Also please, world bank?
That will lose you all credibility instantly

StoneY

[candor]

To me cred comes from telling the full truth. I realise that may put some people off as there are many nuts on about the world bank. Unfortunately it does play a major role in this issue. As should not be surprising given it is an economics / revenue matter. I've a problem with not explaining stuff fully as fed in dribs and drabs the overview is lost - and the above was just to show Ronin why the WB aspect does matter. Without an organisational diagram its hard to figure out where responsibility lies. Maybe it is in different places in a legal sense and in an ethical sense.

Links? I'd be here for a month but I am able to publish the reference list for the book we're writing (contains all above claim sources) then people with a passion can check our research and conclusions - request the list anyone who wants it and I'll post up. Anyhow it is all too much info for light conversation, and prolly best to just focus on the study itself and it's success or failure, as that is a big lot on info in itself. Background stuff though may be useful to people who like to know all the ins and outs?

[Ronin]

Then essentially you give up on safety and give into the conspiracy to target your wallet.

Well I don't give up on safety for a start. Because we have different views does not mean we do not want the same outcome. However (and see stoneys post), I do believe that for you to be credible and taken seriously that you need to move away from the World Bank conspiracy. You are obviously intelligent and put a great deal of hard work into this, it would be a pity to see it ignored because most people when faced with 'evidence' of conspiracy just turn off and stop paying attention.

Are there systemic failures in the way road safety is run here? Yes. Would things improve a great deal if funding and political issues were taken away? Yes. Do I have the solutions? Hell no. I do have the right to voice my opinion and have it heard, I do not though for one minute think that it will make any difference. Still not going to stop me though.

[candor]

So - best to present it evidence of cock up than of reckless trialing of scientists pet theories on a live population. But what then is it called when cock up isn't acknowledged and rectified. It then proceeds to cover up right. Arse covering. Two tactics then present as options - whip the covers off the a-holes or expose what is being fudged - or both, which risks accusations of being a conspiracist. I bet most Kiwis would not be happy to know that Police presented 3 new enforcement "trials" to NRSC for approval to NRSC in May 2007. WTF is going on here, aside from extreme relative carnage, Road safety is too vital to be field trialed without public appro imo.

[MSTRS:Me]

Candor - your message is lost in the poorly written way you present it, coupled with obscure abbreviations and references to things that would have us reach for our tin-hats.
Your last post suggests to me that there is one man (Tony Bliss), who has some sort of vision as to how things should be and uses his position to achieve each step in his vision of Subjugation of the motoring public.

[candor]

Perfectly succinct. Can you be my writer please? so all I needed to say is that he is a driving force? Also if you had just read 10.000 pages of the National Road Safety Committees meeting minutes you would be reaching for a tin hat, their doings ARE unbelievable. Trials, studies, comparing notes with the control studies based on differing variables. We needed puke buckets for about a week. The reason it hits hard is that both our relatives fates (Akilla and mine) were deaths as collateral damage to this RAM study.

[StoneY]

Candor - your message is lost in the poorly written way you present it, coupled with obscure abbreviations and references to things that would have us reach for our tin-hats.
Your last post suggests to me that there is one man (Tony Bliss), who has some sort of vision as to how things should be and uses his position to achieve each step in his vision of Subjugation of the motoring public.

Indeed.

Also the posts lose credibility for calling the so called conspiritists 'a-holes'
Just because we are bikers does not mean we need to have every official called by rude names to catch our attention

If any newsagency published an article written this way, or a govt agency submitted a report written in this manner, it would be laughed off the face of the planet

Candor, if you want to be taken seriously by the KB crowd, less conjecture and more fucus on the points, and links to the evidence

I am fast starting to doubt their is any credibility in any of it, especially when the "World bank" becomes the root of all this evil in the interest of a global zionist conspiracy to control all the road users of the world on behalf of one Tony Bliss - aka The Anti Christ blah blah blah..........

Now FACTS please, documents, and links.

The stuff you sent to BRONZ Wellington is interesting yes... BUT; the way its being presented rips the credibility out of the whole pile, due to overly emotive, wandering writings that fail to reach any solid conclusion of FACT!

Your documents had our guys drooling with 'oh my god read this, read that and look at...' but without refference and verifiable sources, its just shit paper for the long drop to be honest

[riffer]

Full disclosure time. I'm the KBer that Candor has been sending the information to.

I've spent quite a bit of time reading the information that Candor's sent BRONZ. It's very tricky to do this, as some of the information presented is in the form of snippets of OIA releases and some appears to be email transcripts, and there is potential for a fair chunk of it to be taken out of context, and I have to wonder if this is the intention. However, I've given it the benefit of the doubt here as I imagine there's a lot of information to sift through and Candor's trying to give a "summary of the facts", as it were.

I won't presume to speak for BRONZ here, as we haven't looked at this on an official level, but I'll give MY OWN, personal view of what I've been presented.

Herein lies my two big problems:

1. Information is incomplete
2. Some has OIA stamps on it; the "smoking gun" stuff however doesn't. This makes it difficult for me to verify.

Now there is no doubt in my mind that there are a number of bureaucrats in Wellington that have been charged with creating the Resource Allocation Model, which dealt with how to police the roads in order to lower the road toll, and that Tony Bliss, an economist, was part of this group, a role he had the qualifications to perform. I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER their intentions were good. It appears that Tony Bliss was in time offered a role in the World Bank, again a role he had the qualifications to perform.

They developed a formula to assess the success of this work. They advised the Minister at the time (George Hawkins) that they needed time to prove their theory. They initially felt three years would show enough of a trend but this figure seems to be constantly changing as they found that road accidents were more random than their original theory was able to deal with. So they've made modifications to the formula and advised the minister that they felt, hand on heart, that this method would bring the results.

The Minister has given them time for their models to try and work, the road toll has dropped a bit, but they aren't easily able to provide a link due to the randomness of crashes. This merry-go-round has continued through the next two ministers.

So are they ideologically driven? Absolutely.

Is there a conspiracy? I very much doubt it. What we have here is bureaucracy in its purest form. Ministers charge their public servants to come up with the best advice they can get.

I'll continue reading it, in case there's something I've missed, but I just don't see the conspiracy here at this point.

[candor]

Thx Riffer.
Some of the stuff like e-mls wasn't stamped - only the first pages were. The cock up rather than conspiracy is in 2 things; the early acknowledgements x2 or 3 actually that the system is ineffective and increases trauma (you only have copies of one set of reviews showing this). And in that it was allowed to continue. The advice being followed is indisputedly bad (my evidence here is our experts opinions that I did not provide yet, real world evidence and common sense) and non independent.

As I said in private e-mls the materials are reviewed by 2 experts who agree the reviews amount to flagging the system being trauma productive. Of course you only have a fraction of the materials but those are the most important. And as you say I tried to put them in an order you can follow chronologically and make connections. It was not a deliberate attempt to slant, but rather trying to condense and aid navigation of an array of related materials. Would be far easier to do it by a presentation with all things at hand.

Say what Smoky? Bronz has been forwarded several key documents fully supporting my central tenets. They are hardly "shit paper" being official info request replies containing hot material. It is hot enough there is media interest, but they have a couple of requirements I communicated to Bronz in a private e-ml. And I thought we agreed to work on a way to present the complex info sent to Bronz - more legibly than has been done before here on KB. In a keep it simple way. But if you think its all shitpaper, in contradiction to several experts who differ, who've in fact dedicated large resources to defeating the RAM, then I can't help. Have you read it yet?

Your post just seems like an outright attack on my cred, no worries I have it elsewhere and can continue working with other good faith parties IF Bronz aint interested. If it is maybe this thread should be shut down until after Bronz has a crack at mulling materials over, askds for any holes I may have left in the chain to be clarified, understands the docs and relevance fully, and has assessed them for usefulness. Why infight? Those doing wrong within Govt Depts on this fully deserve expletives, it's serious what they do. But if you think clean mouths help then so be it. All I'm interested in is making progress as I know others are.