No more domestic applications (but international fine WTF!)

[Dave Lobster]

Because having a greater proportion of educated people benefits the entire economy, not just those with degrees.

Are you sure it doesn't just make degrees worth less?

[rainman]

My analogy is just fine

Sorry, but just saying it doesn't make it so... And of course education (in general) benefits society. I'd suggest those wealthy benefactors who provide scholarships and endowments to universities the world over understand that, even if you don't.

There is absolutely a degree of bludgery, at both end of the spectrum, as has been pointed out repeatedly here and elsewhere. And freeloading needs to be minimised if any group is to prosper. But the fix for that is not naive radical individualistic Randian libertarianism. No man is an island, and all that.

Yes this means a) managing the incentives/handouts to plain lazy buggers who are gaming the system and won't get off their arse, but also b) managing the handouts to individuals and corporates who are privatising gains and socialising costs (about the only time a libertarian recognises the concept of "society" is when they are looking for some schmuck to stick with the bill/risk/pollution/bailout/etc). I'd even say it means managing the gains we take by screwing over other species - "bludging" is really just taking more than your fair share. Humans are pretty good at that. Not hardwired for justice, one could say.

I'm actually quite a fan of personal responsibility - which may surprise some here. I think it's the fundamental underpinning of the concept of karma (the real one, not the pop culture version). But if it is not tempered with universal compassion, kindness, and unconditional generosity, then it is not.... I dunno what word to use: skilful? mature? evolved? useful? The libertarian ideal of personal responsibility found so often in blogs commnts like this would be fine in an ideal world, where all were equally capable, healthy, free of force and compunction, and where all had reasonably equal access to wealth. Not the real world, though, where none of those apply.

Unfortunately NZ political discourse is stuck in a false dichotomy between those cartooning and vilifying the poor/bludgers and those catooning and vilifying the rich pricks. Time we grew up.

Are you sure it doesn't just make degrees worth less?

Clearly a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing.

[mashman]

It kinda devalues the whole structures.
My degree is now as useless as the dumbest moron that has graduated with it.
Sadly some of these morons get into management, and don't know any better.

Very true... the devaluation knock on effects being the standard of education provided dropping dramatically... Unfortunately, to counteract the lower standards, we have the Ivy Leagues of the world that are only open to the "wealthy"... and it would seem that these top end Unis work under the premis of "the rich are rich because they're clever because they've earned lots of money"...

Yup, may as well make paper airplanes with my degree, 16yrs old and eclipsed by any snot nosed student that decides he'll do a post grad in computing...

[mashman]

Clearly a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing.

I would say that that is true of about 95% of the people I know or know of...

[Winston001]

Its May, partway through the education year. Victoria University have said they won't accept any more domestic enrolments until the end of the year. Otago have said they won't accept in respect of some courses.

That leaves Auckland, Lincoln, Massey, and Waikato Universities still accepting domestic applicants. As well, there are a myriad of polytechs out there still keen for more students. What's the problem?

[mashman]

That leaves Auckland, Lincoln, Massey, and Waikato Universities still accepting domestic applicants. As well, there are a myriad of polytechs out there still keen for more students. What's the problem?

Stop asking such sensible questions ... for me it's the fact that the Uni has decided to do this on the grounds that finances are not available to domestic students... nothing to do with the amount of places available as there are still places for international students.

[Dave Lobster]

How about.. anyone that thinks it is unreasonable for the government not to give our money to the universities makes a donation themselves.
Obviously I wont.. but I'm not a socialist.

[mashman]

How about.. anyone that thinks it is unreasonable for the government not to give our money to the universities makes a donation themselves.
Obviously I wont.. but I'm not a socialist.

I'm not a socialist either, but we both still pay for education through our taxes don't we? the govt then decides how much to apportion to each educational institute doesn't it?

[Dave Lobster]

I'm not a socialist either, but we both still pay for education through our taxes don't we? the govt then decides how much to apportion to each educational institute doesn't it?

Yes.. my point was that they obviously don't have enough money, and those that think something should be done really ought to put their money where their mouth is, and contribute more.
Is that unreasonable?

[mashman]

Yes.. my point was that they obviously don't have enough money, and those that think something should be done really ought to put their money where their mouth is, and contribute more.
Is that unreasonable?

Ahhhh, gotcha... yes it is unreasonable. If this is the road the govt choose to go down, then I would ask that the govt allow me to choose how much of my tax $ goes to which services. I already contribute enough, 40% of my salary to be precise and for the record I do not dodge paying the taxes that the govt say I am liable for (unlike way too many others)... BUT I would happily take whatever tax I pay towards, say defence, and put it into Education, then i can put my money where my mouth is... but as i'm not allowed to do that i'd say it's unreasonable as I don't have the disposable income.

[peasea]

Its May, partway through the education year. Victoria University have said they won't accept any more domestic enrolments until the end of the year. Otago have said they won't accept in respect of some courses.

That leaves Auckland, Lincoln, Massey, and Waikato Universities still accepting domestic applicants. As well, there are a myriad of polytechs out there still keen for more students. What's the problem?

I did wonder about that. Didn't that Caleb dude move towns already? Do it again ya dumb mofo and sign up somewhere else. Or is that too easy?

I must say that the number of g,goo,goo, goo erm, 'good people from Asia' in our education establishments is astounding. When my daughters were going through 6th and 7th form they were always complaining that the goo, goo, good people from Asia constantly jabbered in class in their own lingo and were disruptive but nowt was done about it. Maybe the teachers feared the racist stick. Does the same happen at Uni?

I wouldn't mind seeing the stat's for success of the goo, goo, good people from Asia versus kiwis at Uni.

[peasea]

Ahhhh, gotcha... yes it is unreasonable. If this is the road the govt choose to go down, then I would ask that the govt allow me to choose how much of my tax $ goes to which services. I already contribute enough, 40% of my salary to be precise and for the record I do not dodge paying the taxes that the govt say I am liable for (unlike way too many others)... BUT I would happily take whatever tax I pay towards, say defence, and put it into Education, then i can put my money where my mouth is... but as i'm not allowed to do that i'd say it's unreasonable as I don't have the disposable income.

I'd be whistling my tax money off the dole bludgers and pouring it into health and education, for sure. Some roads too.

[Dave Lobster]

I'd be whistling my tax money off the dole bludgers and pouring it into health and education, for sure. Some roads too.

Don't forget treaty agreements. They're a fucking bargain too.

[rainman]

I'd be whistling my tax money off the dole bludgers and pouring it into health and education, for sure. Some roads too.

I'd tax the crap out of the rich pricks.

[davereid]

I already contribute enough, 40% of my salary to be precise and for the record I do not dodge paying the taxes that the govt say I am liable for.

You also pay another 12.5% when you spend your money. If you own a home you will pay another $2000-$3000 a year in rates. If you insure it ypu will pay another tax, the fire service levy. If you purchase petrol, alcohol, or use a vehicle you will pay another lot, and you will pay government departments, fees they set, for services you dont want, just because they say you must have them.