Carbon emission control efforts put in perspective

[JimO]

. All we know for certain is that we don't know anything for ceratin.

apert from the fact it will cost us a fortune

[davereid]

So we should do more? OK.

The puny $3 a week that the carbon tax has put on our energy usage won't change a thing. Its no where near enough to seriously change our energy usage. Even pensioners and the poor will be able to cook food, afford bus fare or a car and keep warm with a charge like that.

If we really want to make a difference we have to make it a proper charge.

Like $300 a week. Then you would see a reduction in carbon usage ! The poor would walk, and keep warm with a blanket. Pensioners could boil the jug once a day and keep the water hot in a thermos.

And there would be no congestion on the roads, and I could park anywhere I wanted.

[peasea]

Ford stop making them ages ago man.

2005 wasn't that long ago.

[rainman]

If we really want to make a difference we have to make it a proper charge.

I agree entirely, but I suspect the howls of outrage would be deafening. It'd also be political suicide for any politician who suggested such a thing, so it ain't gonna happen. So it looks like all of those who don't like science, and insist there is no anthropogenic climate change happening will get their theory tested. Unfortunately for all of us, and for all the other species who will be affected, we'll all be well fucked when they are proven wrong.

And I'll bet there will be no accountability for those who prevented us from addressing this while we still might be able to, when reality gets to be too hard to ignore, no matter how hard they try.

[flyingcrocodile46]

And I'll bet there will be no accountability for those who prevented us from addressing this while we still might be able to

Who's stopping you. If you want to save the world there is no point wasting time crying about it in the expectation that you can bend others to your will, get on with it yourself. Make a statement of substance by selling your cars and motorcycles, grow your own food and make your own clothes out of the compost or STFU.

[paulmac:Me]

Thing of the savings if all motorsport was banned !!!!!

[rainman]

Who's stopping you.

No-one. I'm certainly not zero carbon but working towards reduction, in the context of the other issues that are around. I do grow a lot of my own food (organically, what's more), compost extensively, repair rather than replace, and generally live a minimal consumer life. My bike is probably the least green thing I have (apart from the kids ), and it does use less fossil energy than an SUV (although it's old,so probably a bit dirty emissions-wise). Anyway, with the way this recession is going I can't afford to WOF, register and ride it at the moment, so the impact is somewhat reduced.

[firefighter]

We should do more, but it's folly even trying until China, India and the U.S make some massive changes.

It's not even like pissing into the wind, it's like pissing into the hurricane of hurricanes.

Take a look at the consumption and pollution in those countries alone, and you will very quickly realise that N.Z may as well not even bother unless they do something quick-smart, and it's not going to happen, so just enjoy yourself. I do'nt care what the apparently "objective" stats say, they're dodgy as fuck. Seeing is believing, and there is nothing is to be achieved when there is such savage destruction going on abroad.

For the record, I do recycle and refuse to litter, but that's about as far as I go with that.

Oh, and on the SUV thing, they're actually pretty damn good. I'm surprised that my 1994 diesel Terrano uses about the same amount of fuel as the the ex's 2002 1.5 Honda Civic, so less than most 2L cars would use.

[cowpoos]

So it looks like all of those who don't like science, and insist there is no anthropogenic climate change happening will get their theory tested. Unfortunately for all of us, and for all the other species who will be affected, we'll all be well fucked when they are proven wrong.

Thats simply not true rainman!! we won't be fucked....there is a precedent for warmer temperatures already in human history...as there is for colder temperatures. we have experienced Ice ages and the medieval warm period as a species. We have survived fine. after all these natural occurrences are part of the earths natural cycles. Average 6-7 degrees warmer during the medieval warm period wasn't caused by humans was it?
We need to take a common sense approach to this farcical ideology of ACC or AGW or what ever the green movement are calling it. The scaremongering simply has to stop!!
Fortunately most people arn't stupid...and the majority see this concept as a load of rot!!
What the green movement should be focusing on is the real pollutants that effect our enviroment...Toxic chemicals, dangerous pure heavy metals and the like.
The green movement is so hung up of hydrocarbon equivalents, of CO2.

I do grow a lot of my own food (organically, what's more), compost extensively, repair rather than replace, and generally live a minimal consumer life. .

Organics is an interesting subject...and an individual choice...Just out of interest...why do you believe its better?

[rainman]

Take a look at the consumption and pollution in those countries alone, and you will very quickly realise that N.Z may as well not even bother unless they do something quick-smart, and it's not going to happen, so just enjoy yourself.

Not a position I can fit into my ethics, but whatever.

Organics is an interesting subject...and an individual choice...Just out of interest...why do you believe its better?

Lotsa reasons:
- Cheaper than supermarket food if done right (and if I value my labour as free)
- I like to garden, so it isn't really work
- Need to be mindful of pests and diseases, and weather - it's not just spray and ignore
- I'm building good soil, and getting good results
- I can grow things that the supermarket system doesn't deliver (unusual varieties)
- I don't have to gamble with complicated chemicals and possible nasty side-effects
- Food miles reduced to food metres
- Education, because I think it's important we know how to grow. We have lost a lot of skill in this area.
- Like it or not commercial food production is highly dependent on oil, and like it or not oil is going to get more expensive.
- No GE required
- Good mechanism for dealing with depression (seriously, there is good research on this)
- Involves the community, I get to meet new people from gardening, and I have a bunch of gardening friends
- I can save my own seeds and select those plants that I want to develop (lots to learn in plant genetics though)
- I can trade plants, seeds etc with others - collecting stuff, basically
- Source of a small amount of income (probably offset by costs, at the moment, but break even is still good)
- It's a thing I can do for the community - busy growing a bunch of onions for a community garden as we speak, teaching the kids at the local school, working with elderly, etc
- I can grow relatively weird things and then learn to cook them
- I can learn which herbs are useful and make my own medicines (for a limited range of things, but still)
- I can make herbal teas from fresh ingredients
- I can preserve excess produce, sell it, or give it away
- I can brew excess fruit into wines, at least some of which are drinkable. I can't sell these, though.
- Gets me outside into the sun/rain
- Projects. I extended by raised beds and built a greenhouse, added a water tank for storage, built compost bins, looking at automation/heat control for greenhouse, looking at keeping chickens...
- It's something I can do with the kids
...

Need any more?

[Jantar]

.... So it looks like all of those who don't like science, and insist there is no anthropogenic climate change happening will get their theory tested. Unfortunately for all of us, and for all the other species who will be affected, we'll all be well fucked when they are proven wrong.......

And for all those who do like science, and insist there is no anthropogenic climate change happening? Well they are the true scientists. Scientific method demands that scientists who put forward any theory should also put forward a null hypothesis to test their theory against. In the case of AGW, that hasn't been done.

On thursday next week there is a Global Warming forum here in Alexandra. Our company has been asked to help lead the forum, and as a result I have been looking at the effects of Global warming on New Zealand. This isn't dealing with the question of is it or isn't it happening, but rather assuming it is appening what will be the effect on our area.

The results of a 2 degree warming will mean slightly more rainfall which is great for a semi arid region. Better river flows with more winter flow and less chance of major floods in spring (due to a higher snow line). Better plant growth with less severe frost and the ability to grow types of vegetation not seen in Central Otago since the MWP. Fewer deaths in winter due to a less severe climate. More predictable wind patterns etc.

Overall we can find only positive outcomes for this part of New Zealand.

[Scuba_Steve]

Well I just have to ask, whens "Global Warming" gonna start? I would like to ride in winter without my fingertips freezing.

[Blackflagged]

Were does the money go from ETS tax? Anyone got a good link, explaining how the carbon credit trading works.In simple or should i say, simpleton language.

[peasea]

Thing of the savings if all motorsport was banned !!!!!

I think you'll find that rugby chews more energy than motorsport. It certainly creates a lot of hot air.

[peasea]

Were does the money go from ETS tax? Anyone got a good link, explaining how the carbon credit trading works.In simple or should i say, simpleton language.

Email Nick Smith and ask him.
mailto:nick4nelson@parliament.govt.nz

He states " If you need my assistance either contact me at my office or my caravan at the Nelson market.
I hold three Ministerial roles in the National Government: Minister for the Environment, Climate Change Issues and ACC."

Go hard.