The return of Bucket Sidecars!

[jasonu]

I was going to tig up a chromoly subframe at work. But without the appropriate filler wire I won't go near it. So I think I'll bronze it. I mentioned it to my "welder" flatmate, who nearly had a heart attack. BRONZE BRONZE he yells.. It'll fall apart as soon as you sit on it !!

Poor fool.

Use mild steel filler wire, the type with the copper colored coating like mig wire has, for tig welding moly. I work at a place that makes experimental planes and that is what we use.

Also, try to track down Shaun Vesey or Jarrod Clendon. They had a nice cart wheel rig Shaun made from scratch in the 90's. They won a lot of races including (I think) a GP at Ohakea. I don't know what happened to the rig but if they still have it I am sure a few $'s will secure it. You will have to check the Wangarei (no 'h') phone book for a contact #

[gatch]

4130 Cho - Mo is more than happy being welded with ER 70S-6 filler wire. i.e Mig wire. Ask your welding rep if you don't believe me. With proper design the pre-heat / post heat isn't as critical as many would have you believe. Certainly a wave over with a air/LPG torch to maybe 80 degrees + will help minimise distortion and unsure the heat afected zone is wider and therefore minimise cracking.

Re your flatmate. There ae welders and there are welders. Perhaps he could open his eyes or even go back to school. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I is a poor thing and shouldn't be listened to. 28 years of fabrication, 17 of them in professional motorsport up to and including F1 is meaningless in the face of such certainty...

Use mild steel filler wire, the type with the copper colored coating like mig wire has, for tig welding moly. I work at a place that makes experimental planes and that is what we use.

Also, try to track down Shaun Vesey or Jarrod Clendon. They had a nice cart wheel rig Shaun made from scratch in the 90's. They won a lot of races including (I think) a GP at Ohakea. I don't know what happened to the rig but if they still have it I am sure a few $'s will secure it. You will have to check the Wangarei (no 'h') phone book for a contact #

Choice. Alright I'll have a go. I ordered an extra metre for practice purpose.. It's not for a side chair frame btw. Just a seat frame for my bucket project. It's 3/4" x .035" wall. Had thought I'd prep the joints in the mill so there would be little to no gap.

Ha my flatmate.. Nice guy. Bit of a mug though. He's doing on site structural fitting at the moment.. Should be explanation enough eh.

[Schrgd]

Def keen on a go hanging off and falling off one of those, had a go on a full size one years ago and loved it! Hope everything works out.

[jasonu]

Be careful, .035 is pretty thin for a novice welder. Make sure you prep your joints as good as you can. If you use the pulse welding technique you will be far less likely to blow a hole in your thin walled tube. The welds end up with a texture a bit like an ali weld.
When you are completely done welding you can use an oxy/acetelene torch with a big cherry tip to heat treat the welds. Carefully heat the welded area, the weld should turn a tan color then SOON after it should turn blue. Once the blue has appeared remove the heat because the next color that will almost imediately appear is red hot, you don't want that. Don't hold the torch on one place, keep it moving back and forth. If it looks like the blue doesn't want to appear you can stop the heating when you see the tan color, better than nothing. Also, when you are heating the joints you can also put a bit of heat on the whole tube too, it releases a lot of stress. The whole heat treating process is a bit of a black art but I have found it is way more reliable colorwise if the acetylene tank is atleast 1/2 full or better. I think it is something to do with the amount of acetone still presant. With a near empty tank the metal seams far more likely to turn straight to redhot which is too hot.
Attached is a pic of one of the airplane engine mounts we make. It is mostly 1"x.049 moly. It is still in the welding jig.
Post the results with pix. Good luck.

[schrodingers cat]

As above. Suggest you use 0.6 mig wire to give you some sort of control. DO NOT use 1.6 tig wire. The amperage you'll have to use to keep the weld pool hot enough and melt the filler wire will blow holes by itself.

Use a 1.6mm tungsten - NOT 2.4. Again control is the name of the game. Suggest you make sure you're using a gas lens on the torch also and don't over-do the gas flow.
Start around 30amps and take your time.

If you try to rush trouble will soon follow.

As JasonU said above the fishmouthed end will heat much faster than the tube you are butting to so remember to focus the tungsten where the heat needs to be.
Also notice how he has polished the protective coating off the join area in his pic.

If at any stage you start to lose control STOP! Deep breath and then carry on. Be patient - its not rocket science. Don't get frustrated and enjoy the learning

[gatch]

Cheers for all the tips. Now, we don't have a pulse tig.. We don't have any filler under 1.6, and our smallest tungstens are 2.4 or there abouts.

The fellas mostly do thick mild steel so we don't have anything flash that isn't a mig.. And I'm not a pimple on the bum of a competent welder, I'm a machinist..

Oh oh I hear them say.

[Pumba]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=291651276

Been advertised in hamilton for a while, I would but my garage is alrady full of enough shit and I whould need a trailer to get it to the track.

Deffently keen for a go on any chairs that turn up at Mt Welly though

[Arronduke]

hell you guys are just to clever.. wow... so cool.
I am a failed fitter turner and I know skill when I see it.... I am impressed...

I would love to be involved building such a beast..... note wife would kill me... so yes.... would love to do somthing like this... dam trailer would be full ....

[jasonu]

Cheers for all the tips. Now, we don't have a pulse tig.. We don't have any filler under 1.6, and our smallest tungstens are 2.4 or there abouts.

The fellas mostly do thick mild steel so we don't have anything flash that isn't a mig.. And I'm not a pimple on the bum of a competent welder, I'm a machinist..

Oh oh I hear them say.

na mate you can do it with the 2.4, a long taper with a really sharp point. That's what I have learnt to use. Pulse with the foot controller assuming it controls the amperage not just the on/off. You might have to buy your own wire by the sounds of it.
Happy machineing!

[Gazzza]

Thanks for all the advice re welding. I must admit the only practical use I had with a Mig was a year or two ago doing a night class, still I got some really good advice and during the process of welding the rig I have noticed a real improvement in my welding. I know the old man built 5 rigs or so all with gas and bronzing, we never in all the years we raced had any structural problems.
I took the rig up the road last weekend and it was just unridable, the lack of rake made it just to twichy, so out with the grinder and I have just finished putting the front back on. It handles great now, but now that I can open it right up I do notice a lack of ommppph, only running a stock standard TF125, the budget just wont stetch to any serious tweaking at the moment. Just wondering dose any one have any really easy and cheap ideas for working one of these engines with out going the whole hog and reboring? It's on the cards but could be a while off as all my money seems to have been painted white and black...

[speedpro]

The good thing with a 2-stroke is that you take material out to make them go fast. Little bit more compression, don't go stupid and measure everything carefully at least twice, and make yourself a nice pipe. If the motor is more or less stock go for a real mild pipe, especially as you are hauling a rig around. PM me your port specs and i will give you a design using the formulae that the ESE guys came up with. All you need is a bit of .8mm mild steel, maybe electrogalv, and a pair of snips and away you go. You can get good gains from making the intake piston ports bigger but again don't go stupid as the motor will start eating pistons

[Gazzza]

Thanks seedpro any advice is much appreciated. I had the blue rig going today and its a bit insane. What ever we did alll those years ago seems to have made it fairly zippy. I suspect the keener swingers / pilots will enjoy this one the most. Depending on how much track time we get its all looking pretty good to get any one interested to have a blat. Lets just hope the weather works for us.

[crazy man]

would be cool to get my bumble bee side car going again after righting it of at a sreet race

[Squiggles]

We'll be there on Saturday, electronic shifter needs more development so its back to suicide shift for now (Hopefully will have hooked up a rear brake for then too)

[Dutchee]

We'll be there on Saturday, electronic shifter needs more development so its back to suicide shift for now (Hopefully will have hooked up a rear brake for then too)

Does that mean your better half is keen to ride again this month?
Make sure you check the shifter before she goes out, especially if it's fine, as I know she'd love to ride the bike working well in the dry hahaha