Self defence

**Rogue Rider** · 11th June 2010, 19:51

The law is a confusing muck, my stance is this, if someone comes into my home/ work and threatens the safety of myself, my family, then I will use all reasonable force and means available to incapacitate the offender. Regardless of the PC patrol and the ridiculous law enforcement potential charges, all I will be thinking about is it's him or me.......
I guess you have to make certain that the situation is not premeditated, or vicious or malicious on your part. Anything that happens in your domain should be acceptible.... ie chasing them down the street and shooting them as they run away may not be as defendable....... I would like to think a jury would find in favour of self def fence over any offender who chooses freely to break the law and threaten someone in their home or place of work. In this day and age, you just don't know the result or outcome of an attack, offenders can be brutal and un emotional and very irrational, escalated by drugs. one has to do everything they can to protect themselves and there assets. Law enforcement agency seems limited to there response time, so do what you can as you can.

As for the weapons they need, well, we all deserve to be armed to be able to defend ourselves. Law enforcement agencies like police and corrections should certainly be considered for vests, and tazers etc to ensure they go home the same condition they start there shift. Both those agencies do a tremendous job, and hopefully they will get better and more successful at it. Power to the people, building safer communities working together, remember, always blow on the pie...........

**Smifffy** · 11th June 2010, 23:34

It's been a long time since I got stroppy on a night out. I don't go looking for trouble, and I do believe in turning the other cheek, and taking the path of least resistance. However I absolutely refuse to be a victim. I don't carry any sort of weapon, unless you count my pocket knife, which no doubt a zealous member of the constabulary would class as a weapon. It is, after all, an extremely practical knife. I took it with me tonight to a restaurant, where it was extremely handy in opening the BYO bottles of Stella. I often use it at work, and generally the only time I'm without it is when I'm flying. I really don't think I would consider using it to defend myself, but if I did, it would not be with the blade open.

**flyingcrocodile46** · 12th June 2010, 00:06

As I understand it. Anybody is allowed to use reasonable force to protect themselves but generally speaking, killing or permanently disabling people isn't considered to be reasonable. If you are deemed capable of using reason then the whole debate about what is 'reasonable' kicks in and is considered in hindsight (the calm after the storm) often with unfavorable results for the respondent who is pleading self defense.

Of course it is an entirely different matter if you are genuinely in fear of your life as you are unlikely to be able to use reason when in fight or flight mode. But that argument doesn't work when you chase the person (whom your are in fear of) down the street then kill them with an air riffle or knife.

**Babelfish** · 12th June 2010, 08:13

The law is always going to seem like its stopping you thinking for yourself as they need to ensure loopholes are limited during the court appearance. How could average joe bloggs possibly understand the complexities the constabulary train to understand within their training? Such training now seems to mean they also get to defend themselves to a greater level civi's are allowed within their own homes. To me, this isn't very community focussed. I totally agree with a cop protecting himself, and I'd like to see them all with weapons and good training to use them. However, I'd also like to see a level of reality added to actions against home invaders and peoples general ability to protect themselves against the same nasties the cops have to deal with.

I take scumdogs point on the fact that I could use the law to clear the decks of some of my less savoury aquaintences. However this is where good investigation comes in. And given the last defence for a cop killing someone during a u turn was that casualties are part of the trade, unfortunately the same flippant principle isn't used for someone sneaking into my dark house and me wholloping before turning the lights on.

**Babelfish** · 12th June 2010, 08:31

Thinking about this, there is some confusion. I suggest some education:

**schrodingers cat** · 12th June 2010, 10:23

Police Brutality!

All coppers are scum and stuff (insert usual rant)

'As easy phrase to remember'

**scumdog** · 12th June 2010, 10:28

Originally Posted by flyingcrocodile46

As I understand it. Anybody is allowed to use reasonable force to protect themselves but generally speaking, killing or permanently disabling people isn't considered to be reasonable. If you are deemed capable of using reason then the whole debate about what is 'reasonable' kicks in and is considered in hindsight (the calm after the storm) often with unfavorable results for the respondent who is pleading self defense.

Of course it is an entirely different matter if you are genuinely in fear of your life as you are unlikely to be able to use reason when in fight or flight mode. But that argument doesn't work when you chase the person (whom your are in fear of) down the street then kill them with an air riffle or knife.

Top post - particularly that last paragraph, woulda blinged you but it was 'must spread rep around' time.

**Usarka** · 12th June 2010, 10:45

The "fight or flight" is reaction doesn't (always) magically end as soon as the threat turns around.....

**flyingcrocodile46** · 12th June 2010, 11:02

Originally Posted by Usarka

The "fight or flight" is reaction doesn't (always) magically end as soon as the threat turns around.....

No, maybe it doesn't end like a switch (that you have control over) but your sub conscious doesn't drive you to seek out weapons (that aren't within sight or arm reach) then hunt down and kill your attacker either.... that takes conscious direction/desire to maim or kill so is not regarded as self defense.

However I may well be wrong as Scumdog appears to share the view.

If I was a dairy owner I would have the loudest alarm available (like those ones trialed in taxis) sell goods well past their use by date, overcharge for them and profit from the unpaid labour of my child slaves.

**JimO** · 12th June 2010, 19:58

my old karate instructor was set upon by a couple of bad arses one night in town he pleaded with them to leave him alone because he knew he would be in the shit with the police if he defended himself to his full abilaty, they didnt so he put both of them on the ground and fucked off before the robberstoppers turned up

**flyingcrocodile46** · 13th June 2010, 12:50

That reminded me of a similar and relevant situation a buddy of mine was in some years back.
He was at a friends house in Glenfield when her son and mate who had been out riding bikes in the neighbourhood, came running into the house pursued by half a dozen street kids. The pursuers stopped at the door then went to steal the bikes on the way out of the property. My mate ran out and grabbed the bikes giving one of them a clip on the ear while doing so. They ran off behind the boundary hedge to the ROW and he followed to see them off. Which was when he saw that their were close to a dozen of them. One of them came swinging at him and the others started too move forward as well. My mate is a senior instructor at a prominent martial arts school and didn't have any trouble side stepping the first attacker and had noticed that the dick was wearing a dog choker chain. Well he grabbed a handful of that and sw/hung the dick out between him and the other would be attackers. He told them to fuck off and lifted the dick off his feet by the choker chain each time they looked like they were going to have a go at attacking him. The stand off lasted for about 5 or 6 minutes before the cops got there. One of the first cops was a young dick who on seeing the other dick's neck (which was not pretty) and now partly red shirt, immediately went to arrest my mate (who wasn't having a bar of it) trying to explain (along with other witnesses) what had happened. The young cop refused to believe his story and it was a pretty tense situation (the cops weren't going to let him go and were too scared to move on and arrest him) My mate was very aggressive verbally particularly when pointing out that they were fuckwits for allowing all the pursuers wander off in the first few minutes (bar dick who of course needed medical attention). But in all this time had only thrown one punch. He had merely used the first attacker as an effective shield. It was another 20 minutes before a police sergeant arrived and managed to process all the facts properly before they decided not to arrest or press charges against my mate. By then all bar one of the original pursuers were well and truly gone.

I posted this here as I figured it was a good example of self defense situations that aren't always as they appear to be.

PS I saw 'dick' a couple of weeks later. He was a very subdued dick with massive bruising and blistering to his neck. It really did look nasty, but I giggled at him anyway.

**Edbear** · 13th June 2010, 13:18

A few years ago a mate was in conversation with a Policeman discussing home invasion and justifiable defense. My mate wanted to know what would happen if he shot the offender.

He was advised, off the record of course, to make sure the offender was coming towards him and then shoot the offender dead. After which fire a warning shot into the ceiling. A dead criminal cannot appear wounded in court influencing the jury, nor can he contradict your testimony.

My mate was told never to shoot the offender in the back.

The problem with firearms in home invasions is that the stroage of your firearm is strictly regulated, meaning that if you were abiding by the law, you probably would not have time to fetch and load it to defend yourself.

**duckonin** · 13th June 2010, 13:45

Originally Posted by Edbear

...the stroage of your firearm is strictly regulated...

What you really mean is 'firearms should be in a lockable gun safe or cabinet', but is it, or was it leaning against the wall-laying on the floor, as I have just come home from hunting....

**Edbear** · 13th June 2010, 13:56

Originally Posted by duckonin

What you really mean is 'firearms should be in a lockable gun safe or cabinet', but is it, or was it leaning against the wall-laying on the floor, as I have just come home from hunting....

Point taken, of course there may be a number of reasons your firearm is out of the cabinet...