Bike Insurance Illusion

[ckai]

So a true market value should be (in my opinion anyway) the price it will cost to purchase the same bike, same age, with the same accessories (after-markets included), with similar milage. It should also be based on a retail/shop price, as you should have the peace of mind of being able to buy your replacement at a bike shop.

This is exactly how I choose the value of my bike when insuring. But then if you have some goodies, you need to tell the insurance fella's otherwise they won't cover them.

The "value" of anything is like anything that gets valued...fair and reasonable with both parties agreeing. It's not the average of the sale prices over a given period. It takes into account all sale prices and looks at the trend. So "one-off" sales get thrown out the window and so do the likes of desperate sales etc, unless of course the majority are "desperate" then this is the market value.

Shit, I did remember something from my valuation years at uni

In the past I had a car over insured for agreed value until I realised the business of insurance and worked out that no company in their right mind would pay out $6000 for an '85 Holden Gemini. I thought I was gonna strike it rich when it got bent! Then I woke up and changed it to $3k, then 2, then 3rd party You gotta be realistic about these things.

[DMNTD:Me]

But hang on a mo. I bought my VTR on a good deal for $5,500 about a year ago. and I insured it for this amount (which has no probably gone down on "depreciation" by some 15% by now. But if I have a look around at the market value, there is no way that I could replace it with the same bike and same condition without spending anything less than about $6,500.

So how do I approach this?
Do I re insure it for higher? The market value doesn't ALWAYS go down...

Right...so you got a great deal to start with...cool.
However when insuring your bike you need to think about its replacement therefore insure it for its market value at the time of insuring it.
IE: I would have insured it for $6,500.

Re extra's (pipes etc): these should all be noted when insuring your bike or they will not be covered. Unfortunately 'extras' do not add their total 'value' to the bike's value.
However if not listed they simply just won't be taken into account if shit hits the bitumen

[DMNTD:Me]

Why shouldnt insurers be valuers? ...

...because it would open them up to heaps of potential bollix.
All the insurance companies that I know of utilise an independant source (bike shop etc...usually 3 different ones) to cover their butts

[wysper]

But hang on a mo. I bought my VTR on a good deal for $5,500 about a year ago. andI insured it for this amount (which has no probably gone down on "depreciation" by some 15% by now. But if I have a look around at the market value, there is no way that I could replace it with the same bike and same condition without spending anything less than about $6,500.

So how do I approch this?
Do I reinsure it for higher? The market value doesn't ALWAYS go down...

You have to be careful with that too, some insurance companies will only pay out a maximum of what YOU PAID for it. So if you a) got a good deal b) work in the industry and got is at special pricing then sometimes market value is irrelevant. At least this was true when I was insuring something at home that I had got from my work at considerably less than retail. Being honest with them I told them what it had cost me and what it was worth. They said they would only cover what it cost me to replace it. Which was less than market value because I could get it at trade.

Fair enough I thought. But useful to know.

[cowboyz]

but my whole argument revolves around the price of te bike being set BEFORE the crash. compulsory agreed value if you like. Then I would have no problem at all with insurers going.. We think your bike is worth $3k. right o.. do you want to insure it for $3k with us. Think of the real compedtiion that would invoke? if you could not only shop around for the bext preimums but the best value overall.

An insurance company might offer a bit of a carrot and go.. well your a low risk.. we will insure you for $5000 instead of the $4000 that other insurance companies ar offering.

Of course, nothing would have to change.. It would just mean that full disclosure would have to open up to a 2 way street and then you will find a heap of people getting upset that their 2009 super machine is no longer insured for $20,000. Its now insured for $15000 which is all they would have paid out anyhow.

Clarity is what we are looking for!

[Oscar]

In respect of the title of this thread - it's not an illusion.

It's a contract that you make of your own free will, with your own hard earned money. The details are in the policy - READ THE BLOODY THING!

[DMNTD:Me]

but my whole argument revolves around the price of te bike being set BEFORE the crash. compulsory agreed value if you like. Then I would have no problem at all with insurers going.. We think your bike is worth $3k. right o.. do you want to insure it for $3k with us. Think of the real competition that would invoke? if you could not only shop around for the best premiums but the best value overall.

An insurance company might offer a bit of a carrot and go.. well your a low risk.. we will insure you for $5000 instead of the $4000 that other insurance companies ar offering.

Of course, nothing would have to change.. It would just mean that full disclosure would have to open up to a 2 way street and then you will find a heap of people getting upset that their 2009 super machine is no longer insured for $20,000. Its now insured for $15000 which is all they would have paid out anyhow.

Clarity is what we are looking for!

Re clarity...this is why now days I do everything via email and save it as I too have had a bad experience from a large insurance company.
I do recommend that people get their bike valued prior to insuring it to help minimise bollix.

[Maha]

In respect of the title of this thread - it's not an illusion.

It's a contract that you make of your own free will, with your own hard earned money. The details are in the policy - READ THE BLOODY THING!

I was under the (false) illusion that you get paid out on the premium you have been paying for how ever long.
Not so as it turns out....that is why I included that word in the title....a personal thing.

[cowboyz]

In respect of the title of this thread - it's not an illusion.

It's a contract that you make of your own free will, with your own hard earned money. The details are in the policy - READ THE BLOODY THING!

hahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahaha

right.. tell me this..

In the 'contract' and I use that term loosely when talking about insurance, in my particular policy for my ROAD bike.. it stated that my excess is $250 for on road claim, $250 for off road claim, and $1000 for theft. Seems easy right?

So trackday comes up... and I tell my insurance company I going for a run round the track and they just pluck a $2000 excess figure out of thier arse.. Hold on.. Is the racetrack a road?? No?? So its off road then? no??? Because its paved? what is the reasoning here..? apart from... 'this is the way we do it!; ' hold on ... I thought I signed a 'contract' with you???

I never tested the theory and it never stopped me doing trackdays but always did want to take my road bike over to woodville motoX and see if I could claim on the $250 excess for off road crash after the first corner.

so again... insurance companies live in their own world... What puzzles me most is... the public let them!

[cowboyz]

I was under the (false) illusion that you get paid out on the premium you have been paying for how ever long.
Not so as it turns out....that is why I included that word in the title....a personal thing.

and where the illusion comes in is if you under insure your bike!

bike insured for $15000.. market value 12k.. payout 12k.
bike insured fr $10k.. market value 12k.. payout 10k

Its not market value... Its actually... market value UP TO insured value! Of course, if at the time you take out insurance you ask them what they would be willing to payout if you crash they cant give you a figure because 'its a conflict of interest for them to value your bike!'


They say the proof of insanity is that you feel like your the only sane person left in the world!

[Gremlin]

very few of the bike companies do agreed value, as I went through this. Bike is insured for more than retail, but less than that plus accessories. The long list specifically states all extras, but still had a hard slog getting the value accepted (and still, who knows come claim time). Next year, bike will have a big drop in value, parts will not be covered, and will be removed before company gets bike, should Shit happen.

[Oscar]

hahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahaha

right.. tell me this..

In the 'contract' and I use that term loosely when talking about insurance, in my particular policy for my ROAD bike.. it stated that my excess is $250 for on road claim, $250 for off road claim, and $1000 for theft. Seems easy right?

So trackday comes up... and I tell my insurance company I going for a run round the track and they just pluck a $2000 excess figure out of thier arse.. Hold on.. Is the racetrack a road?? No?? So its off road then? no??? Because its paved? what is the reasoning here..? apart from... 'this is the way we do it!; ' hold on ... I thought I signed a 'contract' with you???

I never tested the theory and it never stopped me doing trackdays but always did want to take my road bike over to woodville motoX and see if I could claim on the $250 excess for off road crash after the first corner.

so again... insurance companies live in their own world... What puzzles me most is... the public let them!

1. They can't just make up an excess - it breaches the Insurance Law Reform Act
2. Did you tell them that you were going to use it on the track?
3. It's not the fact that your on the road (paved or otherwise) that is the point, it's your use of the vehicle. If you read your policy it will define what is covered in terms of usage including racing, practising or training.

Basically what has happened is that you've changed the terms of the contract (I'll bet you didn't mention trackdays on the original proposal), leaving them free to impose whatever excess they think fits.

[Oscar]

and where the illusion comes in is if you under insure your bike!

bike insured for $15000.. market value 12k.. payout 12k.
bike insured fr $10k.. market value 12k.. payout 10k

Its not market value... Its actually... market value UP TO insured value! Of course, if at the time you take out insurance you ask them what they would be willing to payout if you crash they cant give you a figure because 'its a conflict of interest for them to value your bike!'


They say the proof of insanity is that you feel like your the only sane person left in the world!

Actually there are a few insurers that will pay more than the insured value should the market value warrant it.

[cowboyz]

Actually there are a few insurers that will pay more than the insured value should the market value warrant it.

not many... if any.........

[breakaway]

This is fucked up. I can't believe how many of you are happy forking your money over for 'insurance' but have no idea what will happen in the event of a prang.

One would have assumed that one would discuss all these issues with the companies before signing anything!