Interesting response/letter from Nick Smith to alternative proposals for ACC

[Katman]

exactly the point which katmans endless oneliners dont address

I'm more than happy if we start pointing the finger at cyclists but then some of us will cry "but it's against the original Woodhouse principles blah, blah, blah........."

I agrre with katman that we should fall off less
I dont know how to achieve this without better education (some compulsory and some not). or severe regulation which I am wholeheartedly against

A vast improvement in our accident statistics could be achieved by motorcyclists pulling their heads in and not riding in a manner that makes them an accident waiting to happen.

perhaps he could post some solutions instead of beating his head against the wall (you would think it would hurt by now)

Don't worry about my head - I'm used to the constant throbbing.

[FastBikeGear]

Unfortunately I don't know where to go from here. The lack of enthusiasm from bikers to do anything in large numbers is obvious.

So until someone can spearhead a media based campaign (with the media actually being interested in facts) The governments of new Zealand will do what they want because we will bitch and moan and then give up because "its too hard"

Yachtie unfortunately no one is going to spearhead this campaign. We have all been standing back lwaiting for a skilled leader that we can ALL UNIVERSALLY rally behind and unfortunately he/she hasn't stepped forward, and won't because such a being is an impossibility given our nature as a discordant group.

I know how strongly you feel about the issue although we don't agree on what needs to happen or how.

The only unity in this group is that we don't like the changes and...Oh and we all agree with Katman ...or we will do when he reveals the grand plan to stop idiots falling off their bikes or being knocked off by other idiots, road conditions, etc.

It's time for you and the rest of us to spearhead our own media campaign. See http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...g-is-this-week.

[bogan]

I'm more than happy if we start pointing the finger at cyclists but then some of us will cry "but it's against the original Woodhouse principles blah, blah, blah........."

Theres a difference between pointing the finger, and using them to show that bikers are being unfairly targeted. And the more that cry for a return to the woodhouse principals the better imo.

A vast improvement in our accident statistics could be achieved by motorcyclists pulling their heads in and not riding in a manner that makes them an accident waiting to happen.

I agree, but its too late for an improvement in statistics to reduce our levies (in the near future anyway), and Nick has been known to fudge or ignore the stats completely.

[MSTRS:Me]

perhaps he could post some solutions instead of beating his head against the wall (you would think it would hurt by now)

Don't be silly. Walls don't feel pain...

[Katman]

I agree, but its too late for an improvement in statistics to reduce our levies (in the near future anyway), and Nick has been known to fudge or ignore the stats completely.

As I said in another thread, an improvement in our statistics may not reduce our levies but it would certainly give us plenty of firepower should ACC attempt to make further increases to them.

[Waxxa]

As I said in another thread, an improvement in our statistics may not reduce our levies but it would certainly give us plenty of firepower should ACC attempt to make further increases to them.

levies will always increase because the cost of hospitalisation and medical services is always increasing...

[mashman]

levies will always increase because the cost of hospitalisation and medical services is always increasing...

but not everyone gets the cost of living allowance

[bogan]

As I said in another thread, an improvement in our statistics may not reduce our levies but it would certainly give us plenty of firepower should ACC attempt to make further increases to them.

fair enough, but most of us want a reduction now rather than just no increase in future.

[Katman]

fair enough, but most of us want a reduction now rather than just no increase in future.

Perhaps, instead of sitting here crying about what we haven't been able to change we should be focusing on things that we can change in preparedness for the next onslaught from ACC.

Top of the list of things we can change is our appalling accident rate.

[bogan]

Perhaps, instead of sitting here crying about what we haven't been able to change we should be focusing on things that we can change in preparedness for the next onslaught from ACC. Top of the list of things we can change is our appaling accident rate.

so you've found a way to reduce bikers accident rates then? I'm all ears.

[Katman]

so you've found a way to reduce bikers accident rates then? I'm all ears.

God give me fucking strength!

[bogan]

God give me fucking strength!

I'll take that to mean you will just continue to tell bikers to be safer, which has had little effect so far. I'm just struggling to see the difference between telling bikers to be safe, and telling tptb to reduce our levies.

[MSTRS:Me]

Perhaps, instead of sitting here crying about what we haven't been able to change we should be focusing on things that we can change in preparedness for the next onslaught from ACC. Top of the list of things we can change is our appaling accident rate.

One weekend's stats might be enough for certain police peoples...
We need a trend though. And like all trends, will need to be happening for years before any notice is taken. And all it will take is one B-train to cross into a bunch of bikes, killing 10 and badly injuring 20 more at once (say) to buck the trend and negate the record. These figures just become part of the cumulative number, and not taken in isolation for stats.
Not trying to be defeatist, but the cynic in me says this would be the case.

[Katman]

Not trying to be defeatist, but the cynic in me says this would be the case.

Yeah, and the world could end in the year 2012 so what's the fucking point?

[Katman]

I'll take that to mean you will just continue to tell bikers to be safer, which has had little effect so far. I'm just struggling to see the difference between telling bikers to be safe, and telling tptb to reduce our levies.

It's got nothing to do with me telling bikers anything.

It is to do with bikers coming to the realisation that it is within our own power to change things for the better.