Chain and sprockets?

**Hitcher** · 29th June 2010, 21:43

I mean, what's that all about?

After over 200,000km ridden on motorcycles, I will shortly be up for my first replacement chain and sprockets.

I know little about chains, other than that they are bastards to keep clean.

What questions should I be asking about replacement chains and what should I be looking to avoid?

**sinned** · 29th June 2010, 21:53

It is not as if you are replacing chains and sprockets as often as tyres. They are lasting you so long it is a wonder you have not changed the bike? My recommendation is don't take any risks and replace with the genuine parts for the bike. This may after all be a once in a life time experience and you wouldn't want to cock it up.

Of course this being KB you will get heaps of advice on which are the best types of chain etc. The economics of it are simple - for the life time of the chain a few dollars in price difference makes little difference and the OEM lasts longer than most keep a bike if they are lubed.

**SPP** · 30th June 2010, 09:05

I recently bought another set of sprockets and chain to have on hand and did some trawling around. Here's what I found (worth a least 2c, probably as much as 10c)

Before I launch into it I still think OEM sprockets and chain with regular cleaning and lube will last WAAAY longer than a poorly maintained bling set (assuming OEM quality isn’t ‘China cheap’). You’re probably evidence to that. Also bear in mind that sometimes good OEM can cost as much as good aftermarket. Ok, now on to the bling…

Chain and Sprocket changed together
The pretty well accepted practice to change the sprockets and chain at the same time, even if the sprockets don’t look too bad. I’m not sure what is "ok" worn from "too" worn but for me the reassurance of new sprockets is worth the ‘little’ bit’ extra cost for me. The chain is usually the most expensive bit by quite a margin.

Happy with the current gearing, want to change ratios?
It’s common for people to lose a tooth on the front and to add teeth to the rear as well if you're really keen (-1/+2) for more lively gearing. I personally like stock because I commute a lot. If I only used it for Sunday rides or track days then I’d probably be playing around.

Gearing Commander is a really good site for playing around with changes to sprockets, tyre sizes etc. It also calculates chain length and chain wear for chosen sprocket ratios. http://www.gearingcommander.com/

Note: Stock ratios may be different for different markets e.g. CBR US: 16/42, Europe: 16/41 , Japan 16/40 so a US dude using +2 rear is a +3 rear for NZ or +4 rear for Japan.

Sprocket Material (Aluminium or Steel or both?)
It’s common for people to choose aluminium for weight savings or better product range (brand, ratios etc). I’ve heard that Driven and AFAM are good if aluminium is your thing... and Vortex is second tier by comparison.

I've bought full steel both times (but lightweight) because I didn’t think the weight saving was worth any reduced durability. There’s also "Supersprox STEALTH" (Aluminium carrier/Steel teeth) for less weight than full steel and look really bling. http://www.supersproxusa.com/

Chains
My Honda OEM was a 525HV which is an x-ring made by D.I.D. They don’t sell these anymore except as an OEM part now (I am told). An x-ring (or Z-ring) seal does a much better job that than O-Ring. It's debatable whether an O-ring is still more than enough for most people. For me, if OEM was x-ring then my replacement must also be x-ring.

My first chain change was precautionary at 25k because I didn’t want to deal with a snapped chain in the wop wops. I changed it too early IMO. I went with D.I.D 525VM2 which is the equivalent aftermarket with similar tensile strength and durability. It was also cheaper than a "Honda" one. It just so happens that it's gold and looks bling.

Some reputable chain brands are: D.I.D, EK, and RK

Check here for D.I.D specs http://www.didchain.com/specs.htm
Check here for RK specs http://www.rkexcelamerica.com/street_rk_chain.htm

Note: I chose a new chain based on its tensile strength and wear life index, and only used wear life index to compare chains of the same brand e.g. 525VM2 vs 520EVR3 rather than comparing different brands. I didn’t really believe the manufacturer value as an absolute rating e.g.
D.I.D state WLI: standard =100, X-ring premium: 525VM2=3450, 520EVR3=3100
RK state WLI: standard=100, X-ring premium: GB525GXW=1000, GB520GXW=1000

Chain Pitch Conversions (525->520, 530->525/520)
520, 525, 530 relate to the chain pitch but imply thicker side plates and stronger pins for higher strength and better wear. This is not true in all cases since a high spec 520 chain can be stronger than a lower spec 525 or 530.

On my new set of sprockets and chain I went with 520 (from 525). Not for weight saving but because a 520 sprocket was the only pitch in stock with the tooth count I wanted (standard rear and +1 rear). The package price was cheaper than 525 as well even with top spec’d 520EVR3 (stronger than 525VM2 and close wear index). There seems to be a lot of info floating around on the weight advantages of converting to 520 but I’m not so sure average Joe would notice the difference. If going for 520, get a GOOD chain and sprockets.

**Taz** · 30th June 2010, 10:41

130,000kms on my BMW R1100 and haven't changed a drive chain yet.

**roadracingoldfart** · 30th June 2010, 20:59

Originally Posted by sinned

Of course this being KB you will get heaps of advice on which are the best types of chain etc. The economics of it are simple - for the life time of the chain a few dollars in price difference makes little difference and the OEM lasts longer than most keep a bike if they are lubed.

So are you forgetting the fact the chain from an OEM source is whats sitting on the shelf from a world renouned chain manufacturer ???

If a chain is for EG; an O.E.M. R.K chain , then i could bet my left testy the bike shop will sell you a chain from the shelf exactly the same type and the same brand. They wont have a chain pacaged in a motorcycle brand box to sell you.

If you went to an industrial transmission wholesaler and got the same brand and same type of chain , i would hazzard to guess its a fair bit cheaper.
Upshot is , the OEM is the same as the aftermarket available , just the price is differant depending where you buy it.

**roadracingoldfart** · 30th June 2010, 21:00

Originally Posted by Anthrax

130,000kms on my BMW R1100 and haven't changed a drive chain yet.

You should let BMW know what a wonderfull ecconomical bike they made and how gentle it is on chains

**MIXONE** · 30th June 2010, 21:06

Just to add to this the next time I have to change my chain/sprockets I want to gear the bike down by about 10%.
Is it better to go smaller front or larger rear?Or both?

**98tls** · 30th June 2010, 21:06

Fwiw ive long since used Tri metal sprockets Hitch,you just cant wear them out.

Then again i only ride an old jap shitter,you have no need for such things.

**98tls** · 30th June 2010, 21:08

Originally Posted by MIXONE

Just to add to this the next time I have to change my chain/sprockets I want to gear the bike down by about 10%.
Is it better to go smaller front or larger rear?Or both?

Go up on the rear by 2.

**sinned** · 30th June 2010, 21:10

Originally Posted by sinned

It is not as if you are replacing chains and sprockets as often as tyres. They are lasting you so long it is a wonder you have not changed the bike? My recommendation is don't take any risks and replace with the genuine parts for the bike. This may after all be a once in a life time experience and you wouldn't want to cock it up.

Of course this being KB you will get heaps of advice on which are the best types of chain etc. The economics of it are simple - for the life time of the chain a few dollars in price difference makes little difference and the OEM lasts longer than most keep a bike if they are lubed.

Originally Posted by roadracingoldfart

So are you forgetting the fact the chain from an OEM source is whats sitting on the shelf from a world renouned chain manufacturer ???

If a chain is for EG; an O.E.M. R.K chain , then i could bet my left testy the bike shop will sell you a chain from the shelf exactly the same type and the same brand. They wont have a chain pacaged in a motorcycle brand box to sell you.

If you went to an industrial transmission wholesaler and got the same brand and same type of chain , i would hazzard to guess its a fair bit cheaper.
Upshot is , the OEM is the same as the aftermarket available , just the price is differant depending where you buy it.

You may well be correct about the manufacturer of the chain, where the OEM comes from and the same chain may be lower priced elsewhere. My point is that as a well lubed chain on a road bike lasts so long the difference in cost over time is not worth bothering with and it takes time to research suitable chains, find a source, go buy it etc. If you value your time (have little spare time) it is just not worth it. In my spare time I prefer to ride.

**roadracingoldfart** · 30th June 2010, 21:17

Originally Posted by sinned

You may well be correct about the manufacturer of the chain, where the OEM comes from and the same chain may be lower priced elsewhere. My point is that as a well lubed chain on a road bike lasts so long the difference in cost over time is not worth bothering with and it takes time to research suitable chains, find a source, go buy it etc. If you value your time (have little spare time) it is just not worth it. In my spare time I prefer to ride.

I just dont like pushing after the cheap chain broke lol.

Stick with a known brand and the product will not let you down , all the readily available brands like DID , RK , Tsubaki , etc are all good.
The other very importand part of a chain is the link , get a good rivet link and make sure its staked correctly.

Paul.

**F5 Dave** · 5th July 2010, 18:06

Originally Posted by roadracingoldfart

. . .
If a chain is for EG; an O.E.M. R.K chain , then i could bet my left testy the bike shop will sell you a chain from the shelf exactly the same type and the same brand. They wont have a chain pacaged in a motorcycle brand box to sell you. . .

Of course you are right, with the provision that every manufacturer has range of chains varying from damn fine to pretty damn average. Unless you buy Vagina chain which seems only to be smeg (maybe that has changed).

Originally Posted by roadracingoldfart

. . . If you went to an industrial transmission wholesaler and got the same brand and same type of chain , i would hazzard to guess its a fair bit cheaper.
Upshot is , the OEM is the same as the aftermarket available , just the price is different depending where you buy it.

There your left testy is on more shaky ground. Industrial chains usually run at a fairly consistent speed, whereas bike chains have to contend with continual botched gear changes & hamfisted wheelie attempts. They are apparently different specs. Mishy may show up at a later date if he's on the net with more info. or Hitcher if you go talk to Andrew at TSS you won't find many with more product knowledge. You will of course need the correct chain riveting tool, or pay someone to do it.

**The Stranger:Me** · 5th July 2010, 18:41

Originally Posted by SPP

I recently bought another set of sprockets and chain to have on hand and did some trawling around. Here's what I found (worth a least 2c, probably as much as 10c)

Before I launch into it I still think OEM sprockets and chain with regular cleaning and lube will last WAAAY longer than a poorly maintained bling set (assuming OEM quality isn’t ‘China cheap’). You’re probably evidence to that. Also bear in mind that sometimes good OEM can cost as much as good aftermarket. Ok, now on to the bling…

Chain and Sprocket changed together
The pretty well accepted practice to change the sprockets and chain at the same time, even if the sprockets don’t look too bad. I’m not sure what is "ok" worn from "too" worn but for me the reassurance of new sprockets is worth the ‘little’ bit’ extra cost for me. The chain is usually the most expensive bit by quite a margin.

Happy with the current gearing, want to change ratios?
It’s common for people to lose a tooth on the front and to add teeth to the rear as well if you're really keen (-1/+2) for more lively gearing. I personally like stock because I commute a lot. If I only used it for Sunday rides or track days then I’d probably be playing around.

Gearing Commander is a really good site for playing around with changes to sprockets, tyre sizes etc. It also calculates chain length and chain wear for chosen sprocket ratios. http://www.gearingcommander.com/

Note: Stock ratios may be different for different markets e.g. CBR US: 16/42, Europe: 16/41 , Japan 16/40 so a US dude using +2 rear is a +3 rear for NZ or +4 rear for Japan.

Sprocket Material (Aluminium or Steel or both?)
It’s common for people to choose aluminium for weight savings or better product range (brand, ratios etc). I’ve heard that Driven and AFAM are good if aluminium is your thing... and Vortex is second tier by comparison.

I've bought full steel both times (but lightweight) because I didn’t think the weight saving was worth any reduced durability. There’s also "Supersprox STEALTH" (Aluminium carrier/Steel teeth) for less weight than full steel and look really bling. http://www.supersproxusa.com/

Chains
My Honda OEM was a 525HV which is an x-ring made by D.I.D. They don’t sell these anymore except as an OEM part now (I am told). An x-ring (or Z-ring) seal does a much better job that than O-Ring. It's debatable whether an O-ring is still more than enough for most people. For me, if OEM was x-ring then my replacement must also be x-ring.

My first chain change was precautionary at 25k because I didn’t want to deal with a snapped chain in the wop wops. I changed it too early IMO. I went with D.I.D 525VM2 which is the equivalent aftermarket with similar tensile strength and durability. It was also cheaper than a "Honda" one. It just so happens that it's gold and looks bling.

Some reputable chain brands are: D.I.D, EK, and RK

Check here for D.I.D specs http://www.didchain.com/specs.htm
Check here for RK specs http://www.rkexcelamerica.com/street_rk_chain.htm

Note: I chose a new chain based on its tensile strength and wear life index, and only used wear life index to compare chains of the same brand e.g. 525VM2 vs 520EVR3 rather than comparing different brands. I didn’t really believe the manufacturer value as an absolute rating e.g.
D.I.D state WLI: standard =100, X-ring premium: 525VM2=3450, 520EVR3=3100
RK state WLI: standard=100, X-ring premium: GB525GXW=1000, GB520GXW=1000

Chain Pitch Conversions (525->520, 530->525/520)
520, 525, 530 relate to the chain pitch but imply thicker side plates and stronger pins for higher strength and better wear. This is not true in all cases since a high spec 520 chain can be stronger than a lower spec 525 or 530.

On my new set of sprockets and chain I went with 520 (from 525). Not for weight saving but because a 520 sprocket was the only pitch in stock with the tooth count I wanted (standard rear and +1 rear). The package price was cheaper than 525 as well even with top spec’d 520EVR3 (stronger than 525VM2 and close wear index). There seems to be a lot of info floating around on the weight advantages of converting to 520 but I’m not so sure average Joe would notice the difference. If going for 520, get a GOOD chain and sprockets.

Ah sprocket science - only on KB can someone make such a meal of such a mundane topic.

You could just ride into your nearest bike shop and ask them to replace the chain and sprockets, pay your money and ride off when the job is done.

**SPP** · 5th July 2010, 19:12

Originally Posted by The Stranger

Ah sprocket science - only on KB can someone make such a meal of such a mundane topic.

You could just ride into your nearest bike shop and ask them to replace the chain and sprockets, pay your money and ride off when the job is done.

You're welcome, yes a meal alright...ah well

Q. "What questions should I be asking about replacement chains and what should I be looking to avoid?"
A. "Pull out wallet. Pay someone to do something. Ride away when they've finished doing it"

Much cleaner. I like it.

**Hitcher** · 5th July 2010, 19:19

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

Hitcher if you go talk to Andrew at TSS you won't find many with more product knowledge. You will of course need the correct chain riveting tool, or pay someone to do it.

Noted. I plan to pay somebody to do this. I long ago learned the extent of my mechanical competency. This task falls outside of it.