Wayne Gardner demands immediate TT ban

[Katman]

If people whine, moan and cry for long enough they get their way

Oh, how I wish that were true.

[avgas]

I would be very interested in finding out how the organizers have (or not) made the track safer over the years to keep up with
1/ the higher speeds of the riders
2/ the modern expectations of safety for spectators and riders.

Ask the LTSA - they seem to be doing OK according to your figures.

[avgas]

Joe Public see these riders in the same light as the Roman peasants viewed the gladiators....as expendable.

There is a saying Biggles, if you don't like sharks - don't swim in the fucking ocean.
However there are people in this world who love swimming with sharks.
They may be crazy - but in their minds they will be thinking "at least I don't ride motorbikes".
Same shit different smell.
Public opinion is always like this - and will never change.

[Biggles08]

FACT? Where have you done your research? What was the margin of error in your poll? How many people did you ask about this? Oh really, none? Fuck man that's probably the stupidist thing I've seen you post, and normally your posts are amongst some of the more intelligent ones. Honestly, do you really think people operate this way? Yes lots of people like to see crashes etc, the old 'Car Wars' and 'Bike Wars' videos are evidence of that. But 'expendable'? Really?

It was a figure of speech onearm, my mistake....it is merely an observation not a 'fact' like you have said. I'll be more careful this time with my choice of words...In my opinion after watching peoples reactions to various events in life, people are drawn to watch adrenalin sports like the IOM due to curiosity within themselves. "How can people do this sport!" and thoughts like that. Like I also said in that post, the one where you hammer me for choosing my words wrong, Motorcyclist's such as yourself, Deano and myself view it different to this "to a degree" but we still have the same animal instinct and curiosity deep seated within us.

Like you, Deano and other riders we understand the skill, bravery and sheer determination these competitors each have and I too marvel at the slow motion footage showing the amazing workings of the bike and rider...but all these things can be achieve without the toll of death by racing in 'safer' environments. Maybe I'm different in that I do not see these competitors as 'heroes' as others do...those that do are no different than the screaming onlookers cheering for their 'hero' to kill the Lion.

Its funny, I get pissed off when people find out I race and immediately call me an adrenalin junkie...because I'm not! The only time I have a shot of adrenalin running through me is when I've fucked up on the track and I'm too close for my liking to crash. I find circuit racing actually quite calming to myself as a person...I strive for perfection in the race (hardly ever getting anywhere near it of course), I am focused completely on what the job is at hand....clinical....as far from adrenalin as I can be actually. Sports like MX show jumping and IOM are what I would call adrenalin sports and people tend to watch these sports because there is a higher than normal chance of carnage. These events are catering for the spectators who want to have 'Heroes' and cheer them on. Disagree with me if you like but from what I've seen this is the case for the average 'non-motorcyclist' attending these events.

Funny too...come Paeroa and Whangas all these different riders come out of the woodwork who only compete in the street events....why do you think that is?

Lets be clear here, I'm not personally calling for a ban of the IOM myself (although I would never race there and believe it has served its useful life), I am more so a doomsayer with a sandwich board standing on your street corner saying "Beware - The end is nigh!"

[avgas]

they encourage any two-bit politician who scans the daily rag to have an opinion on us, and it's never a good one.

Sorry I have mistaken you for a motorcyclist.

[Biggles08]

Here's a bit of a video following 3 riders at a weekends road racing on the national circuits in Ireland.

Theses guys have a better idea than 90% of the crap posted here so far so have a quick look and see whats its really like at grass roots level. And then make your mind up.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/nort...nd/8593237.stm

Unfortunately for the IOM TT races they get a huge media focus and every bit of bad news gets alot of publicity but it does very little to show the safety improvement side of things which is improved year on year.

And also someone has mentioned that most spectators go to watch the TT as a blood sport and compared it
to the roman lions. Thats a total load of narrow minded sh#t. If you actually had a look at the spectator numbers at any road race event they are mostly watched by enthusiasts who follow all types of motorcycle racing so going by your logic the majority of people that turn up at nationals or the winter series are there to see crashes???????
Think most people come along to watch some good racing and following the sport they love

Would have been an interesting video if my small mind could understand the fuckers! eh hehe

[onearmedbandit]

It was a figure of speech onearm, my mistake....it is merely an observation not a 'fact' like you have said (Actually you said that lol). I'll be more careful this time with my choice of words...................

Lets be clear here, I'm not personally calling for a ban of the IOM myself (although I would never race there and believe it has served its useful life), I am more so a doomsayer with a sandwich board standing on your street corner saying "Beware - The end is nigh!"

In my work, my family and my circle of friends I have a lot on non-motorcyclists. And their views on watching racing is that it is exciting to view, but typically they cringe at the accidents. Not many people I know enjoy watching a helpless rider tumbling down a 'modernised safety compliant' track. The imagery of a rider rag-dolling is pretty horrible to most people. The imagery of a rider doing the same and hitting a wall at the IoM would probably make them walk away from the TV. No one likes to see it. Car crashes on the other hand, now I definitely believe that a lot of people like to see a car slide of the track sideways, catch an edge in the kitty litter and barrel roll into the fence. Because 9 times out of 10 the driver gets out and walks away.

[avgas]

If anyone is wondering what he means, I think it's "All racing carries an 'absolute' level of risk, i.e. death". Am I right avgas?

Yep - A dead racer is the same in any track. On any surface.
dead.
Soon as you jump on any bike there is a small chance - but its there, that you are dead.
I salute those who know how great the chance is at IOM, I salute the fact they are able to stare it right in the face and push themselves an their bikes to the limits when death is right on their doorstep.
Some don't come back, and that is sad. But they knew what was involved.

[Biggles08]

In my work, my family and my circle of friends I have a lot on non-motorcyclists. And their views on watching racing is that it is exciting to view, but typically they cringe at the accidents. Not many people I know enjoy watching a helpless rider tumbling down a 'modernised safety compliant' track. The imagery of a rider rag-dolling is pretty horrible to most people. The imagery of a rider doing the same and hitting a wall at the IoM would probably make them walk away from the TV. No one likes to see it. Car crashes on the other hand, now I definitely believe that a lot of people like to see a car slide of the track sideways, catch an edge in the kitty litter and barrel roll into the fence. Because 9 times out of 10 the driver gets out and walks away.

Yet when there is footage available for viewers it will be sought out and watched over and over again....posted on peoples facebook pages (like the recent crash in the moto2 race this weekend) and talked about...so why is that then? Curiosity bro...its what makes us racers all heroes to some.

[Biggles08]

I salute those who know how great the chance is at IOM, I salute the fact they are able to stare it right in the face and push themselves an their bikes to the limits when death is right on their doorstep.
Some don't come back, and that is sad. But they knew what was involved.

Sounds like they are your heroes avgas?

[ellipsis]

, I am more so a doomsayer with a sandwich board standing on your street corner saying "Beware - The end is nigh!"

......much like someone telling me that their God is bigger than mine...

[onearmedbandit]

Yet when there is footage available for viewers it will be sought out and watched over and over again....posted on peoples facebook pages (like the recent crash in the moto2 race this weekend) and talked about...so why is that then? Curiosity bro...its what makes us racers all heroes to some.

I don't deny that there is a morbid fascination with crashes however I strongly disagree that people are baying for the riders blood or hoping that he's badly injured. To state before that the majority of Joe Public view motorcycle racers as 'expendable' is 1000 miles away from watching the replay of a crash a few times. I don't believe for one minute that the majority of people who view the IoM watch it for the possibility of injury or death.

I now see however that this is the way you perceive things. Do you honestly think that 'you racers' are heroes to some because of the crashes?

[Biggles08]

I don't deny that there is a morbid fascination with crashes however I strongly disagree that people are baying for the riders blood or hoping that he's badly injured. To state before that the majority of Joe Public view motorcycle racers as 'expendable' is 1000 miles away from watching the replay of a crash a few times.

I don't say people are wanting injury or fatalities, sorry don't misunderstand me...its as you have said, 'a morbid fascination with crashes.' But people are watching other people face death square in the eye and get off on that scenario...like the gladiators vs the Lions etc. Its deep seated in most...the little guy vs the big bad universe...hell, just look at the Kiwibiker icons....whats this one for?

I don't believe for one minute that the majority of people who view the IoM watch it for the possibility of injury or death.

I agree with you...not my point at all.

I now see however that this is the way you perceive things. Do you honestly think that 'you racers' are heroes to some because of the crashes?

I believe to some uneducated 'joes' we are perceived in a manner of defying death and the odds....you really can't argue with this onearm...most people rightly or wrongly think motorcycle racing is super stupid dangerous....and this forms an opinion within thier heads about those of us who compete in this sport.

[Biggles08]

......much like someone telling me that their God is bigger than mine...

He is

[imdying]

Far from needing to be banned, the IoM is actually ahead of its time. True blood sports are the future, and whilst it might take us to get there (oh, and we will get there), we can at least enjoy the spectacle that is the IoM in the mean time.

Motorbike racing is awesome. People getting splattered is awesome. Combine the two together, and well, what could possibly be more awesome? People love that shit! You don't look up at a jumper hoping the cops will bring him down safely now do you!

Long live the crazy road racers, let your blood be on our hands!