Peter Bethune's trial starts Thursday 27 May

[shrub]

No, I'm not French
No they don't, although they do process some of their excess from research rather than dumping it... next...
I guess it's the natural tendency to despise terrorism that most people possess..

I see, so the reason you are unable to debate is that you believe everything that any gubbermint tells you. "It's good, decent scientific whaling - the Japanese gubbermint says so, so it must be and I won't bother looking at the situation and realising that harvesting around 1000 whales is ridiculous." Tell me my lad, how many Kiwi get killed every year by researchers? Hpow many elephants, rhinos or giant pandas? These are all species that undergo scientific research, some of it extensive, yet how come none get deliberately killed?

Ever asked yourself that?

And how does what the SSCS do constitute terrorism? Or is a terrorist anyone who stands up to your masters? And thanks for the red rep, I take that as an admission you're out of your depth.

[shrub]

Explain to me how a stationary boat can ram another boat....

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=f-Ffr7Nk2DE

Easy. The Adi Gil had a massive magnet on board that sucked the Shonan Maru into it, or maybe Pete Bethune hacked the Shonan Maru's control systems and overrode them and forced them to ram the Adi Gill.

[imdying]

I see, so the reason you are unable to debate is that you believe everything that any gubbermint tells you. "It's good, decent scientific whaling - the Japanese gubbermint says so, so it must be and I won't bother looking at the situation and realising that harvesting around 1000 whales is ridiculous."

No, ridiculous is other countries trying to take away their customary rights.

Tell me my lad, how many Kiwi get killed every year by researchers? Hpow many elephants, rhinos or giant pandas? These are all species that undergo scientific research, some of it extensive, yet none get deliberately killed.

They're also not 20 tonnes and swimming in the most hostile ocean in the world...

Ever asked yourself that?

Actually no, I don't give a fuck about panda bears. No wait, whales, me and Kenny don't give two shits about whales... But then, why would I ask myself about the specifics of researching whales, given that I'm not a whale researcher

It's very simple, whales are animals, and animals are food. People bitching about eating whales are tiresome hypocrites with their all or nothing bullshit. There is absolutely no reason why whales can't be harvested sustainably like any other food source.

And how does what the SSCS do constitute terrorism?

I'm

not

really

sure...

[shrub]

No, ridiculous is other countries trying to take away their customary rights.
They're also not 20 tonnes and swimming in the most hostile ocean in the world...
Actually no, I don't give a fuck about panda bears. No wait, whales, me and Kenny don't give two shits about whales... But then, why would I ask myself about the specifics of researching whales, given that I'm not a whale researcher

It's very simple, whales are animals, and animals are food. People bitching about eating whales are tiresome hypocrites with their all or nothing bullshit. There is absolutely no reason why whales can't be harvested sustainably like any other food source.

You really are an idiot. Should we eat Kiwi? They're an animal. And what about humans? We're also animals. And what has the weight and location of a whale got to do with whether the Japanese are justified?

And the whole "customary" bullshit shows you've bought the Japanese propaganda hook, line and harpoon. If the Japanese used open boats and harpoons in their own waters I wouldn't have a problem with it, but a massive commercial fleet in a whaling sanctuary? And if you're so in support of "customary rights", how do you feel about maori treaty settlements? Or is it only OK when it pisses the greenies off?

[imdying]

You really are an idiot. Should we eat Kiwi?

If you can run a sustainable Kiwi farm, then sure, I don't see why not? Next you'll be telling us that eating cats and dogs is wrong too.

They're an animal. And what about humans? We're also animals.

Ah huh, and you're calling me an idiot

And what has the weight and location of a whale got to do with whether the Japanese are justified?

You said that other animals are researched without having to kill them and remove them from their natural habitat... all of the animals you listed are on exteremly accessible and hospitible (by comparison to the Southern Ocean) land, and also in comparison, tiny.

And the whole "customary" bullshit shows you've bought the Japanese propaganda hook, line and harpoon.

Very true. It's completely impossible that I could believe that off of my own back. Deary me, what was I thinking

If the Japanese used open boats and harpoons in their own waters I wouldn't have a problem with it

Bullshit.

but a massive commercial fleet

Massive? Come on, you obviously want to be taken seriously, so stop with the bullshit. Go have a look at a tuna fleet.

how do you feel about maori treaty settlements?

The Maori's, whilst not indigenous to New Zealand, copped a pretty raw deal, and should be duly compensated. It's only the level and length of compensation that I believe should be up for debate.

[shrub]

If you can run a sustainable Kiwi farm, then sure, I don't see why not?

Whales are an endangered species and are not farmed sustainably, but the point is that the Japanese are breaking the law and thumbing their nose at the rest of the world and Pete Bethune has the balls to stand up to them.

[imdying]

the Japanese are breaking the law

No, they're not. They're running a perfectly legal scientific research program that happens to outflow excess into the commercial market rather than wasting it.

[Max Preload]

So what you're saying is that allowing the Japanese to harvest whale meat has financial benefits for you and I? I would suggest that given the extent of whale watching in NZ we make a brazillian times more money from whales being alive than we do from Mr Yamagochi enjoying his whale sushi.

A continued good trading relationship with Japan is worth far more than a few boat trips ferrying hippies and halfwits to see whales off Kaikoura, which in any case aren't affected in any way, shape or form by the operations in the international waters of the southern ocean within the rules of the International Convention on the Regulation of Whaling. The point being both are sustainable - they are not mutually exclusive. Whales are a resource.

And then there is the troubling issue of morality: The Japanese aren't legally allowed to engage in commercial whaling in the Southern Whale Sanctuary, so they pretend to be conducting scientific research with a huge fleet of vessels killing hundreds of whales, which mostly end up for sale in Japan. Scientific research? yeah, right.

Where's your proof they're just pretending?

Maybe I'm being a little simplistic, but to me that is dishonest and deceptive. Do you admire that kind of behaviour? Or were you unaware of it?

What 'sort of behaviour'? Following the rules of conventions to which you are a signatory? Yes, I do admire that. But I don't admire violent, lying criminals harassing them.

[Max Preload]

Whales are an endangered species and are not farmed sustainably, but the point is that the Japanese are breaking the law and thumbing their nose at the rest of the world and Pete Bethune has the balls to stand up to them.

They're not endangered - that's just an emotive term applied on an ad hoc basis. Numbers are increasing - by definition that makes the numbers being taken now sustainable.

No, they're not. They're running a perfectly legal scientific research program that happens to outflow excess into the commercial market rather than wasting it.

And this is indeed a REQUIREMENT of the research under the Convention.

[Max Preload]

You really are an idiot. Should we eat Kiwi? They're an animal.

Yes. They should be farmed and eaten. They'd never go extinct if they had commercial value. There's no shortage of sheep & cattle, despite the numbers consumed.

[imdying]

Whales are a resource.

I don't understand why that is so hard to understand for some people. The Japanese will not stop whaling, but there's a pretty good chance that if people stop being dicks about it, they'll agree to sustainable harvesting that can satisfy the needs of both parties.

Yes. They should be farmed and eaten. They'd never go extinct if they had commercial value. There's no shortage of sheep & cattle, despite the numbers consumed.

I'm not completely confident on that; you're still talking humans and they're proven not to be the smartest out there... look at hippys for example.

[Max Preload]

I don't understand why that is so hard to understand for some people. The Japanese will not stop whaling, but there's a pretty good chance that if people stop being dicks about it, they'll agree to sustainable harvesting that can satisfy the needs of both parties.

Yeah, there seems to be some irrational emotional attachment to whales for some people - fucked if I know why. Sure, they're interesting but that's about as far as it goes. Mind you, the Hindus have the same thing with cows... imagine if all 950 million Hindus told us to stop breeding, killing & eating cows.

[JimO]

Y

]? And if you're so in support of "customary rights", how do you feel about maori treaty settlements? Or is it only OK when it pisses the greenies off?

fuck the treaty

[imdying]

Yeah, there seems to be some irrational emotional attachment to whales for some people - fucked if I know why. Sure, they're interesting but that's about as far as it goes. Mind you, the Hindus have the same thing with cows... imagine if all 950 million Hindus told us to stop breeding, killing & eating cows.

Pretty much. Whales are kinda cool though, and there's no good reason to wipe them out... So if the Japanese can show proven herd numbers and agree to a hunt limit, then let them go nuts... they've been doing it since the birth of Christ, so who are we to say they can't at all.

fuck the treaty

Well that would be the ideal obviously, but given the world would frown on a Maori cull, there doesn't appear to be much chance of ignoring it.

[Max Preload]

Pretty much. Whales are kinda cool though, and there's no good reason to wipe them out... So if the Japanese can show proven herd numbers and agree to a hunt limit, then let them go nuts... they've been doing it since the birth of Christ, so who are we to say they can't at all.

Absolutely. I don't want to see them gone either. The fact is they're not even heading that way. It's just the whale huggers can't see the forest for the trees.