The AA are lying about us.

[MSTRS:Me]

It's still playing with figures to promote a certain view.
If 75% of fatals were rider error, that's saying something entirely different to the 50% each way over all crashes.

[Katman]

The AA figures on the fatals are indeed a reality. The MOT put fatal motorcycle accidents at about 75% as rider at fault

Just thought I'd quote it in case anyone missed it.

[dipshit]

If 75% of fatals were rider error, that's saying something entirely different to the 50% each way over all crashes.

A car pulls out in front of you coming out of the supermarket... you hit it and get a broken leg. Not fatal.

You are on your bike fanging it over a nice bit of road... you run wide on a corner and go through a farmer's fence at 140. More likely to be fatal.

[davereid]

Just thought I'd quote it in case anyone missed it.

only 75% huh ?

That's WAY BETTER than car drivers. They were responsible for 99% of fatal accidents that car drivers died in.

You are the victim of a simple statistical lie called switching the denominator.

ie..

There are 100 vehicles on the road.

50% are red and 50% are blue. They have an exactly equal chance of crashing into each other.

We will have 3 types of crashes. And, we know they all have an equal chance of occuring.
They are

Red Car hits Red Car
Blue Car hits Blue Car
Red Car hits Blue Car

We have just shown the RED car to be a factor in 66% of crashes.

[dipshit]

That's WAY BETTER than car drivers. They were responsible for 99% of fatal accidents that car drivers died in.

So either a car driver ran off the road on its own or had a fatal crash with another car. Yes, all of which would be a car driver's fault.

[Katman]

You are the victim of a simple statistical lie called switching the denominator.

I'd love to hear how you explain away the fact that motorcycles make up 2% of the road going fleet but 10% of road accident figures.

[mattian]

The AA suck. I went there to enquire about insurance for my bike and they said no, because I have to have a "Car" insured with them as well. Thought that was a bit fucked.

[Ronin]

We have just shown the RED car to be a factor in 66% of crashes.

Thats because red ones go faster. Speed kills.

[davereid]

I'd love to hear how you explain away the fact that motorcycles make up 2% of the road going fleet but 10% of road accident figures.

We simply don't know if motorcyclists crash more than car drivers, as we don't record crash rates.

We only record injury rates.

Motorcycles don't have air-bags, seatbelts, roll cages, neck restraints, or wheels at each corner to stop them tipping over.

So, all we can say with certainty is that when a motorcycle crashes, the rider has a higher chance of being injured.

Any suggestion that we are bad riders because we represent 10% of injured drivers when we are only 2% of all drivers, is completely invalid.

[Katman]

We have just shown the RED car to be a factor in 66% of crashes.

'To be a factor in' does not equate to apportioning fault.

[davereid]

'To be a factor in' does not equate to apportioning fault.

I tried to keep it simple to teach the principle of changing the denominator. There weren't really any red cars. I just made them up.

It was related to the quote that 75% of motorcycle deaths are the the fault of the biker. As I pointed out, 99% of car driver deaths are caused by drivers.

The TRICK is to define the question at the beginning by looking at the entire population.. then to switch to a subset of the general population when presenting your results.

EDIT.. you will see the "a factor in" regularly used with things like alcohol, speeding, vehicle defects etc...

You also don't need to explicitly define the denominator, people will cheerfully do it (incorrectly) themselves.

For example, when it was quoted that 75% of motorcycle deaths are the fault of the rider, most people felt uncomfortable about that, as they expected the figure to be about 50%.

Once the real denominator was introduced it was clear that it was just a deliberately misleading statistic.

[bogan]

I tried to keep it simple to teach the principle of changing the denominator. There weren't really any red cars. I just made them up.

It was related to the quote that 75% of motorcycle deaths are the the fault of the biker. As I pointed out, 99% of car driver deaths are caused by drivers.

The TRICK is to define the question at the beginning by looking at the entire population.. then to switch to a subset of the general population when presenting your results.

you may be misinterpreting it, as I read it the quote refers to the person in control of the vehicle (the biker) the 99% you are giving refers to anyone in a car (drivers) which is pretty meaningless other than to show how stats can be manipulated.

[davereid]

you may be misinterpreting it, as I read it the quote refers to the person in control of the vehicle (the biker) the 99% you are giving refers to anyone in a car (drivers) which is pretty meaningless other than to show how stats can be manipulated.

Its just an example of how as KM has quite rightly pointed out, TPTB are telling lies about us.

My point was simply to show how the bastards had done it so no one will fall for it again !

[freedom-wedge]

only 75% huh ?

That's WAY BETTER than car drivers. They were responsible for 99% of fatal accidents that car drivers died in.

You are the victim of a simple statistical lie called switching the denominator.

ie..

There are 100 vehicles on the road.

50% are red and 50% are blue. They have an exactly equal chance of crashing into each other.

We will have 3 types of crashes. And, we know they all have an equal chance of occuring.
They are

Red Car hits Red Car
Blue Car hits Blue Car
Red Car hits Blue Car

We have just shown the RED car to be a factor in 66% of crashes.

I was waiting to come up on a post that spelled it out clearly, You dont think the massive amount of government money that comes to the AA by way of lucrative contracts encourages them to discredit who ever the contactor desires they axe and we are it, once they turn the bikers against the AA who amongst us will help them when its the car drivers turn to be axed or should I say taxed, we all know that red cars go faster David so the drivers of them must be at fault.

[Pixie]

Mike Noone of the AA is the most dangerous obstacle motorcyclists could ever encounter!

Relentlessly anti motorcycle!

He's a government construct - doesn't really exist.Created to advance the Govt.'s anti motorcycle agenda.

I mean..... Mike No one?
Who'll fall for that pseudonym?