MNZ rule changes: I have been told we'll know by the end of July

[lostinflyz]

this is the first of any dates that have been annouced. Jan 15th sounds like last years dates for starting.

To be fair they can only book in dates so many months in advance, and some tracks are not so flexible i hear, and i imagine alot of other meets have priority to certain dates and times over the nats (most SI tracks are car club run so they take preference to their events/bigger events)

[Robert Taylor]

this is the first of any dates that have been annouced. Jan 15th sounds like last years dates for starting.

To be fair they can only book in dates so many months in advance, and some tracks are not so flexible i hear, and i imagine alot of other meets have priority to certain dates and times over the nats (most SI tracks are car club run so they take preference to their events/bigger events)

Money talks, the big car race events, their bigger budgets and bigger gate takings ( usually ) will get first bite of the cherry

[Robert Taylor]

Some of us need to apply months in advanve (yes over 6) to get that period of time off work.
It may not be the case in YOUR situation, but there are others in different situations.

WE needed to find out the dates ASAP for planning purposes, and found some many months ago, only for them to change.

Aaron Carr (as everybody is putting their name to things).

In a similiar vein the industry suppliers are also compromised if notice of rule changes are too short. Whether people like it or not the sport is also about the industry, especially given that the industry at large puts a hell of a lot of money and effort into road racing. Too often the industry is either taken for granted or people are downright rude about the industry.The leadtimes for pre-ordering product can be quite protracted and the investments very substantial, the impact of less than well researched rule changes can be devastating, economically.
If the industry at large pulled all its support tommorrow there would be no road racing worth going to.

[cowpoos]

But you just said you don't like it........

Don't get me started sunshine....I'm a fucking legend....ask my Mum!!

[Biggles08]

In a similiar vein the industry suppliers are also compromised if notice of rule changes are too short. Whether people like it or not the sport is also about the industry, especially given that the industry at large puts a hell of a lot of money and effort into road racing. Too often the industry is either taken for granted or people are downright rude about the industry.The leadtimes for pre-ordering product can be quite protracted and the investments very substantial, the impact of less than well researched rule changes can be devastating, economically.
If the industry at large pulled all its support tommorrow there would be no road racing worth going to.

A good example of exactly this was evident with no tires available that had been ordered within the prescribed time frame at last years Nationals, yet still was unable to be delivered for the SI rounds in time...I agree with you Rob, we need the industry to be excited about doing business if motorcycling in NZ is to flourish...especially in the racing scene.

For this same reason I hope MNZ decide to allow aftermarket wheels in the 600SP and the Superbike classes to get my sponsor involved more...hell...he wants to at the moment!This will add to the 'point of difference' between the stock classes too (and make for some fun with suspension tuners too ).

[Robert Taylor]

A good example of exactly this was evident with no tires available that had been ordered within the prescribed time frame at last years Nationals, yet still was unable to be delivered for the SI rounds in time...I agree with you Rob, we need the industry to be excited about doing business if motorcycling in NZ is to flourish...especially in the racing scene.

For this same reason I hope MNZ decide to allow aftermarket wheels in the 600SP and the Superbike classes to get my sponsor involved more...hell...he wants to at the moment!This will add to the 'point of difference' between the stock classes too (and make for some fun with suspension tuners too ).

What I do worry about though is that too many classes are effectively being created which will put pressure to in the future eliminate the more open classes. Especially if the costs in those classes magnify. We are looking too much to Austruckingfailure when in reality so few Kiwis race there and if the Dingos race here they usually dont bring their own bikes
It wasnt too many years back that complete aftermarket forks were banned in NZ Superbike by the rulemakers, largely on the grounds of cost and I quietly accepted that. We ran a full season on a Superbike with Ohlins forks and but for a crash the title would have gone to that bike and rider combination.
We also ran a dummy electronic suspension setup on Sam Smiths R6 at Pukekohe a couple of seasons back and electronic suspension promptly got banned, it put a couple of peoples noses out of joint because they didnt have it.( In reality it was the very trick fork internals we had just fitted and Sam being rather good at Pukekohe that made him very fast at that meeting ) It was a very revealing insight into human nature but it was also a very good giggle.
With all respect if lightweight wheels are allowed ( and there are very good technical reasons for having them plus its a very viable alternative re cost etc) then it displays a very selective mentality of what is and isnt allowed.
The market is small and limited in the number of riders, although per capita its amazing how many riders we put on the grids. Thinking alloud the most practical overall class structure should be Superstock only but allowing full exhaust systems pipes and ECUs, retaining current Superbike and SS600 suspension rules. And theres nothing to stop people running heavily modified stock suspension, if they so choose.

[budda]

Some of us need to apply months in advanve (yes over 6) to get that period of time off work.
It may not be the case in YOUR situation, but there are others in different situations.

WE needed to find out the dates ASAP for planning purposes, and found some many months ago, only for them to change.

Aaron Carr (as everybody is putting their name to things).

Your point is well put, Aaron - thats why we ( the Commission ) have published the dates NOW, so that the Competitors have as much time as we can manage to get their Champs arrangements in place .... you may have missed MY point though - there have been no dates previously issued by the Commission, the ones released yesterday are THE official dates

Peter Ramage
Road Race Commission Chair

[Biggles08]

What I do worry about though is that too many classes are effectively being created which will put pressure to in the future eliminate the more open classes. Especially if the costs in those classes magnify. We are looking too much to Austruckingfailure when in reality so few Kiwis race there and if the Dingos race here they usually dont bring their own bikes
It wasnt too many years back that complete aftermarket forks were banned in NZ Superbike by the rulemakers, largely on the grounds of cost and I quietly accepted that. We ran a full season on a Superbike with Ohlins forks and but for a crash the title would have gone to that bike and rider combination.
We also ran a dummy electronic suspension setup on Sam Smiths R6 at Pukekohe a couple of seasons back and electronic suspension promptly got banned, it put a couple of peoples noses out of joint because they didnt have it.( In reality it was the very trick fork internals we had just fitted and Sam being rather good at Pukekohe that made him very fast at that meeting ) It was a very revealing insight into human nature but it was also a very good giggle.
With all respect if lightweight wheels are allowed ( and there are very good technical reasons for having them plus its a very viable alternative re cost etc) then it displays a very selective mentality of what is and isnt allowed.
The market is small and limited in the number of riders, although per capita its amazing how many riders we put on the grids. Thinking alloud the most practical overall class structure should be Superstock only but allowing full exhaust systems pipes and ECUs, retaining current Superbike and SS600 suspension rules. And theres nothing to stop people running heavily modified stock suspension, if they so choose.

I personally believe it will end up as 'natural selection' and what will be will be. There will always be a minority of people that will want a class that is 'open' with regards to the rules...in fact I will re-word that, most would love to race a fully equipped piece of machinery but are unable to afford too...that is all that is stopping them.

However, the Super Stock class has the potential to draw in the motorcycling manufacturers more I think...we may end up seeing bike shops promoting racers...their racers more as the 'branding' of motorcycle manufacturers become more relevant to them. I'm all for a class that promotes Honda vs Kawasaki vs Yamaha vs Suzuki myself...because lets face it...then everyone will find out the awesomeness of the green!

Aftermarket products such as Ohlins and Carrozzeria wheels are very important to the success of the racing community in NZ...but I believe proactive involvement of actual motorcycle manufactures is more important.

[CHOPPA]

What I do worry about though is that too many classes are effectively being created which will put pressure to in the future eliminate the more open classes. Especially if the costs in those classes magnify. We are looking too much to Austruckingfailure when in reality so few Kiwis race there and if the Dingos race here they usually dont bring their own bikes
It wasnt too many years back that complete aftermarket forks were banned in NZ Superbike by the rulemakers, largely on the grounds of cost and I quietly accepted that. We ran a full season on a Superbike with Ohlins forks and but for a crash the title would have gone to that bike and rider combination.
We also ran a dummy electronic suspension setup on Sam Smiths R6 at Pukekohe a couple of seasons back and electronic suspension promptly got banned, it put a couple of peoples noses out of joint because they didnt have it.( In reality it was the very trick fork internals we had just fitted and Sam being rather good at Pukekohe that made him very fast at that meeting ) It was a very revealing insight into human nature but it was also a very good giggle.
With all respect if lightweight wheels are allowed ( and there are very good technical reasons for having them plus its a very viable alternative re cost etc) then it displays a very selective mentality of what is and isnt allowed.
The market is small and limited in the number of riders, although per capita its amazing how many riders we put on the grids. Thinking alloud the most practical overall class structure should be Superstock only but allowing full exhaust systems pipes and ECUs, retaining current Superbike and SS600 suspension rules. And theres nothing to stop people running heavily modified stock suspension, if they so choose.

I completely agree with the superstock rules robert, suspension, full exhaust and tuning device. Chances are this rule will come in next year after i have modified my bike to superbike spec haha

[gixerracer]

I completely agree with the superstock rules robert, suspension, full exhaust and tuning device. Chances are this rule will come in next year after i have modified my bike to superbike spec haha

Just leave it alone then the bloddy thing is fast enough now

[scorry]

So........ motards racing at all 5 rounds this year??

[Shaun]

Y should we fit in with the rest of the world ??? They wouldnt do the same for us and there is only one guy that actually gets of his arse and goes over seas racing and he nows as well as you do that being a NZ champ isnt worth a pinch of shit

You are correct re the NZ Championship Title means shite for over seas, but it is worth a lot to earn here!

And I am also sure the MNZ code is based on " To help and develop riders" So how does creating a class that is more exspensive than the current ones help that, also dates, how do we help encourage people to try and race over seas, when dates clash with the rest of the World, and it is NOT the world that needs to change, it is US! We have to work in with the world to help grow our sport and riders.

This is NO attach on any one, I am just High Lighting the issue, hoping the commision notes it for the future of our sport and riders.

Why are we even considering making the classes so different from current rules, Which will only make racing more exspensive??

Light weight wheels

Engine modofications

The $ ADD UP

[brads]

You are correct re the NZ Championship Title means shite for over seas, but it is worth a lot to earn here!

And I am also sure the MNZ code is based on " To help and develop riders" So how does creating a class that is more exspensive than the current ones help that, also dates, how do we help encourage people to try and race over seas, when dates clash with the rest of the World, and it is NOT the world that needs to change, it is US! We have to work in with the world to help grow our sport and riders.

This is NO attach on any one, I am just High Lighting the issue, hoping the commision notes it for the future of our sport and riders.

Why are we even considering making the classes so different from current rules, Which will only make racing more exspensive??

Light weight wheels

Engine modofications

The $ ADD UP

Could'nt agree more with you shaun,why make it more expensive than it already is?

[Shaun]

Could'nt agree more with you shaun,why make it more expensive than it already is?

I cannot understand either Brad, unless there is something we are not totally aware of?

The economy is F"D Bike sales are F"D Accessories sales are F'd so where is the EXTRA REQD money going to come from to build these bikes

If you are Not a compitent mechanical person, the cost involved in building an up spec 600 motor is going to cost you around $3k MIN, What is the point, O that's write, so we can go to Aussie, hahahaha, who does any way, NO one has any Money, and there are only 3-5 riders here that would be worth sending any way these days---- Not a Dig at people, just how I see the level of riders in NZ at the moment, there are some on there way again, and ONE very very good future I am aware of on his way up the chain.

Hero's and Stars

Sketchy Racer, Glenn Skatchill

So where has all the sponsorship money come from to get him over seas racing after his last 12 months of brilliant commitment to his riding?????
He is the BEST young rider I have ever seen in this country, including Aaron Slight Andrew Stroud Simon Crafer, I grew up with them, so know where they were at at his stage of his racing.

The above PROVES to me the serious lack of funds in our sport

[Robert Taylor]

I personally believe it will end up as 'natural selection' and what will be will be. There will always be a minority of people that will want a class that is 'open' with regards to the rules...in fact I will re-word that, most would love to race a fully equipped piece of machinery but are unable to afford too...that is all that is stopping them.

However, the Super Stock class has the potential to draw in the motorcycling manufacturers more I think...we may end up seeing bike shops promoting racers...their racers more as the 'branding' of motorcycle manufacturers become more relevant to them. I'm all for a class that promotes Honda vs Kawasaki vs Yamaha vs Suzuki myself...because lets face it...then everyone will find out the awesomeness of the green!

Aftermarket products such as Ohlins and Carrozzeria wheels are very important to the success of the racing community in NZ...but I believe proactive involvement of actual motorcycle manufactures is more important.

Yes there will be natural selection, for better or worse. Manufacturers of aftermarket product, the tyre suppliers, oil suppliers etc ad infinitum are in fact just as important as the bike manufacturers themselves as they are all interlinked. Taking it to its finest point bike manufacturers are in fact assemblers of product as many of the bikes use product that is made by subcontractors. For example WP are a subcontractor of product to KTM ( although in that case Ill conveniently foget that KTM own WP)
When we are talking aftermarket suspension there are in fact 5 highest quality and performance products on the radar screen that race at the highest levels beit WSS600, World 600 and 1000 Superstock ( yes aftermarket suspension used in 600 Superstock ) and AMA racing. WP, Penske, Works level Showa,Ohlins and Bitubo. Bitubo making a presence in WSS600 on the Triumphs and a nice looking product indeed.
Interesting to note that 3 of the biggest motorcycle distributors in NZ strongly favour aftermarket suspension for Superstock 600 class and the vibe out there is that most submitters were also in favour of retaining aftermarket. A fifth motorcycle manufacturer ( KTM ) has standard suspension components that in other ways are considered aftermarket!!!
It would be ideal to have a greater level of dealer involvement but frankly I dont see much more of that anytime soon. The road race motorcycle world is a very different animal to 2 or 3 decades ago and whilst many hark back to the simplicity of those times it aint coming back! Also, this sounds negative but its the stark reality. Given that current retail motorcycle sales are down as low as 1962 levels and that dealers are operating on extremely squeezed margins many are on the bones of their bottoms. It is they who need sponsorship!