YANTS - Yet Another New Two Stroke

[pete376403]

Combining flat twin boxer, opposed piston (think Commer TS3, Napier Deltic or Junkers bomber) engine tech, long rods and short rods, and an electric turbocharger - presenting the EcoMotor.
Among its investors - Bill Gates (Microsoft) and Vinod Khosla (Sun Microsystems).
The animation is neat, but can't see it being much of a revver with those long rods

http://www.ecomotors.com/?eomid=1.0.4246

[blackdog]

...... but can't see it being much of a revver with those long rods

http://www.ecomotors.com/?eomid=1.0.4246

325hp @ 3,500 rpm

100mm bore, no mention of stroke/displacement, or which fuel it was using (diesel?)

someone wanna hazard a guesstimate?

[bogan]

looks pretty good, I do like new two stroke things!

I can't tell how exactly how it breathes though, I'm guessing the exhaust port opens slightly before the intake and are located at different ends to blow through nicely. No expansion chamber though so probably no awesome power-band either. Electric anti-lag for the turbo technology could be applied to other engines too.

The rpm can't be too low, 2.4hp per kg isn't bad compared with modern engines.

[blackdog]

had a thought.

@3500rpm the equivalent expansion in a conventional engine would be @7000rpm

[Motu]

Interesting,I like it.No mention of fuel,but it could be petrol or diesel,both direct injection.But a ported engine can't be boosted,only scavenged - the exhaust ports open before,and therefore after the intake ports close,so it just blows straight out.A turbo puts a restriction in the exhaust,giving something for the blower to push against.I don't see how a combined turbo/supercharger can do two jobs at once....but perhaps that's where the smart part is - and they don't show us how that works,just hint.That means the secret stuff doesn't work yet,we need more millions.....

[bogan]

had a thought.

@3500rpm the equivalent expansion in a conventional engine would be @7000rpm

depends on the cranks throws, equivalent cc would be equivalent expansion.

Interesting,I like it.No mention of fuel,but it could be petrol or diesel,both direct injection.But a ported engine can't be boosted,only scavenged - the exhaust ports open before,and therefore after the intake ports close,so it just blows straight out.A turbo puts a restriction in the exhaust,giving something for the blower to push against.I don't see how a combined turbo/supercharger can do two jobs at once....but perhaps that's where the smart part is - and they don't show us how that works,just hint.That means the secret stuff doesn't work yet,we need more millions.....

conventionally yes, but if the cranks are slightly offset it would alter the port timing, assuming one piston is exhaust and one is intake it would blow through, then boost as the exhaust port closes but intake is left open. And similarly on exhaust it would open earlier allowing the hot gasses to spin the turbine before the back pressure interferes with the intake stream. Though judging by the animation this offset is very small and I doubt much boost could be gained, it's probably only there to aid in blowing the exhaust gasses out.

Would be interesting to see how/if they do direct injection of petrol, as that would mean way cleaner emissions than your average two smoker!

[blackdog]

depends on the cranks throws, equivalent cc would be equivalent expansion.

sorry, i meant expansion rate

[Motu]

but if the cranks are slightly offset it would alter the port timing, assuming one piston is exhaust and one is intake it would blow through, then boost as the exhaust port closes but intake is left open.

This could potentially be done on a 2 stroke with exhaust valves like a Detroit,but would further complicate a complicated simple design.Dephasing the pistons would negate the perfect balance of the opposed piston design.There are problems with this engine they aren't telling us about - and that's why it not in production,making all other designs obsolete.

[bogan]

sorry, i meant expansion rate

rate would still be equal as you go from fully compressed to fully open in half a rotation in either engine.

This could potentially be done on a 2 stroke with exhaust valves like a Detroit,but would further complicate a complicated simple design.Dephasing the pistons would negate the perfect balance of the opposed piston design.There are problems with this engine they aren't telling us about - and that's why it not in production,making all other designs obsolete.

pretty sure it is done on them charged desile two strokes with an exhaust valve (is that what a detroit is?). Yeh that would fuck up the balance a little, but if thumpers can cope with high revs/power the design should be able to as well.

I reckon the only real area for improvement is efficiency, all the liter bikes show the otto cycle can make ridiculously unessesary amounts of power. So unless there is a vast efficiency gain over conventional engines I just don't see much point going into production, other than for the I'm different factor like the rotary.

Saying that though, I still reckon it's a cool design!

[Edbear]

, all the liter bikes show the otto cycle can make ridiculously unessesary amounts of power. So unless there is a vast efficiency gain over conventional engines I just don't see much point going into production, other than for the I'm different factor like the rotary.

Saying that though, I still reckon it's a cool design!

And be very fuel efficient at the same time. The "problem" is that the conventional engine, ie: the Otto cycle motor is cheap to produce and modern technology, materials and engineering has developed the engine beyond what anyone would have thought possible even 50 years ago. The cost of developing and replacing it with other designs has to be balanced against the possible gains and to date these gains don't offer enough over the Otto to make the investment viable.

Any new engine really needs to offer either a huge advantatge in economy or near-zero emissions. I found this site good for summarising many of the alternatives being explored.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Engines

[Motu]

pretty sure it is done on them charged desile two strokes with an exhaust valve (is that what a detroit is?)

Not that I've heard....and that's why the 2 stroke diesel is in the bin.They make a shit load of power for their size,but are too dirty to clean up economicaly.I see nothing in this nice new design that will make it run super clean...or is that another secret?

[blackdog]

depends on the cranks throws, equivalent cc would be equivalent expansion.

of course it is

[schrodingers cat]

Look to be that the barrels are assymetric hence the colour coding. Red = exhaust side piston, Blue = intake side piston. No spark plug assembly to desiel - injector shown on LHS into intake runner.
The seperation between the intake and exhaust port will help somewhat the old 2 stroke problem keeping the exhaust and intake charge from overlapping.

The motion of the pistons is interesting due to the long and short cranks. See how the pistons accelerate as they approach each other. Fast good for making sudden bang, slow at the other end to allow for good scavenge.
The motion reminds me of a withworth link action. May possibly be similar to the Miller Effect in a split cycle engine

Can't see anything here to set the world alight. Having Bill Gates as an investor is no big deal. He's got soooooo much money there is no need to do proper diligence and expect a return

Any new engine really needs to offer either a huge advantatge in economy or near-zero emissions. I found this site good for summarising many of the alternatives being explored.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Engines

Saw tesla turbines on this site and it reminded me of this novel use

[pete376403]

Not suggesting having BG on board means anything other than money may not be a problem. OTOH, with BGs involvement, might be best to wait for a couple of service packs to be released before buying one. :-)

The target appears to be fuel economy - 100 MPG four passenger car - rather than emissions.
Fuel could be bio-diesel.