www plumbing question - how does this work

[Big Dave]

All sorted then?

edit: what ISP are you using?

'Best guess'.

Telecom big time's last gasps.

[Gremlin]

Yeup... definitely caching on that one...

In the words of a telecom support person: "Big Time does strange things to internet plans"

I just wanted port 25 back, and despite their claims, I'm still pretty damn sure I don't have it back.

[pete376403]

http://www.kiwirider.co.nz/index.html


http://kiwirider.co.nz/index.html

technically, aren't these considered two seperate web sites?
And the www.kiwirider.etc site has an alias to the non www address? (or vice versa)

[Big Dave]

could be caching on your ISP proxy. Disconnect your modem (switch it off) then restart. It should clear.

Done, but same result.

Still shows old page if the /index.html is added to the URL.

Cleared local cache again and even gave the computer a reboot for good measure while the modem was sparking up again.

All good sans extension added to URL.

[Gremlin]

http://www.kiwirider.co.nz/index.html


http://kiwirider.co.nz/index.html

technically, aren't these considered two seperate web sites?
And the www.kiwirider.etc site has an alias to the non www address? (or vice versa)

The key part is kiwirider.co.nz. This is a domain. Anything else is extra (ok, some exceptions, but lets not muddy the waters).

You then have "records" for kiwirider.co.nz. This is words and short bits in front of kiwirider.co.nz, eg, mail.kiwirider.co.nz, backup.kiwirider.co.nz, and there is no limit on quantity or setting. Equally, www is also a record. When setting up a domain, all this has to be created.

So, if you don't put the A record in (A record is nothing, ie, kiwirider.co.nz - and commonly pointed to same address as www - which incidently, A has to be an IP address, but www can be CNAME to the A record) but put in www, then typing kiwirider.co.nz won't work, but www.kiwirider.co.nz will work.

Enjoying it yet?

edit: Thats also not to say, you could have web.kiwirider.co.nz (or www2 or something) and point it to a completely different server, with a completely different website, as long as the hosting server is configured to answer requests for kiwirider (a server can answer for multiple websites) and points it in the right direction

[Big Dave]

Confirmed plumbing on server is all correct - further points the ISP caching issue.

Everyone says 'Ahhhhhhhh....Telecom.....yeah.....'

I went googliimingming anyway

A cache server is a dedicated network server or service acting as a server that saves Web pages or other Internet content locally. By placing previously requested information in temporary storage, or cache, a cache server both speeds up access to data and reduces demand on an enterprise's bandwidth. Cache servers also allow users to access content offline, including rich media files or other documents. A cache server is sometimes called a "cache engine."
A cache server is almost always also a proxy server, which is a server that "represents" users by intercepting their Internet requests and managing them for users. Typically, this is because enterprise resources are being protected by a firewall server. That server allows outgoing requests to go out but screens all incoming traffic. A proxy server helps match incoming messages with outgoing requests. In doing so, it is in a position to also cache the files that are received for later recall by any user. To the user, the proxy and cache servers are invisible; all Internet requests and returned responses appear to be coming from the addressed place on the Internet. (The proxy is not quite invisible; its IP address has to be specified as a configuration option to the browser or other protocol program.)

[Gremlin]

so do you know what it all means basil?

Essentially, from an ISP point of view, it conserves bandwidth. 20 people view a vid, but the ISP retrieves it once

[Big Dave]

so do you know what it all means basil?

Essentially, from an ISP point of view, it conserves bandwidth. 20 people view a vid, but the ISP retrieves it once

Yea - thought it was t' issue from the onset but needed to confirm server was routed right, roger.

Why now? is more the question but if they are currently plumbing the demise of big time it would explain it I suspect.


Rascally routers routed right. oi oi - AD/DT

[Ronin]

You should still be able to change the DNS server in your modem. This will bypass telecoms cache as you wont be using their system to resolve your address requests. Having said that, they may block any other but I dont think so. Try orcons 60.234.1.1

@ Gremlin... as for port 25, good luck with that. I have a mailing list full of techs who want to cause much hurt to telecom.

[Grasshopperus]

If you're still struggling with this BD then you can try to bypass the Xtra caches by doing something like this

http://www.kiwirider.co.nz/index.html?asdasdad

http://kiwirider.co.nz/index.html?asdasdad

what I've done here is put this string at the end of the request '?asadasd' your site will probably ignore anything that looks like this but to the Xtra caches it will appear as a unique request.

If the actual '?asdasdas' stuff is totally random, change it however you want, the important part is to have '?' after your URL and something aftterwards.

The long-term solution is to put 'expires' headers on your webpages (that's a server setting) so that caches (like Xtra's) periodically refresh your content meaning you won't get into this situation in the first place.

Feel free to PM me if you've got other questions, running websites is something I do as part of my job.

Cheers

[Grasshopperus]

Oh, and for people who want to be able to tcp/25 to the world while using Xtra broadband.

info page http://telecom.custhelp.com/app/answ...tail/a_id/1218

opt-out page https://selfservice.xtra.co.nz/live/...ile/OpenPort25

I did this the other day, put in a couple of questions in a webform to reassure Xtra, pressed 'submit', reset my router and I was able to talk direct to mail servers straight afterwards. Took about 2 minutes.

[Big Dave]

Feel free to PM me if you've got other questions, running websites is something I do as part of my job.

Cheers

Thanks - still has the /index.html cached after the ? enquiry.

I'm not fussed this end - pretty sure what the prob is - concern is that anyone on telecom that has the site bookmarked that way doesn't see the latest updates.

It's now over 18 hours since the update. If it lasts much longer I'll consider installing an update page linky as well.

Chairs.

[Marmoot]

Cache issue aside, the way the server is configured means you have "two websites" to maintain.
Both http://www.kiwirider.co.nz/ and http://kiwirider.co.nz/ returns HTTP 200 response (i.e., page found OK).

Ideally, you should only have one (pick one, whether it is the "www" version or non-"www" version) for a lot of technical reasons which would take me an hour or two to explain to you (let me know if you want to hear).

To futureproof your website, the easiest way is to upload a .htaccess file (no name, just dot-htaccess) containing a HTTP 301 redirection from non-www to www (or the other way around if you so wish).
To do this from non-www to www, write the following into the .htaccess file:

Options +FollowSymLinks 
RewriteEngine on 
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^kiwirider.co.nz [NC] 
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://www.kiwirider.co.nz/$1 [L,R=301]

What would happen is when someone types "kiwirider.co.nz" or "http://kiwirider.co.nz" into their browser then the "www." part would be automatically added into it by your server and the user would see http://www.kiwirider.co.nz regardless of what was typed originally.
This way, you only need to make sure http://www.kiwirider.co.nz is behaving perfectly. Much easier maintenance.

[mashman]

You don't have any bypass proxy settings do you? or an edited hosts file that "points" kiwirider or www.kiwirider to any development server?

[Big Dave]

In the HTdocs folder? Mr Moot