Aftermarket wheels for new National SUPERBIKE rules

[Biggles08]

Shaun and Craig have been around this circus a fair while mr Biggles :-), and i have no doubt that they have the sport as a whole in mind.

Maybe...maybe not...I have my opinions on this and I'll keep them to myself

[codgyoleracer]

While I understand your reasoning Glen, at the end of the day like I have said before, natural selection will occur.

In the meantime, why do we allow one bling part and not the other? That's the question really. If we are going to have an 'open' class, rightly or wrongly shouldn't aftermarket wheels be allowed in this class?

Yes , i see where you are coming from - but there is sooooooo much more accessories that should be added if wheels are allowed...... , Thats why British Supersport bikes cost 100,000 pound + nowadays.........

[Biggles08]

Yes , i see where you are coming from - but there is sooooooo much more accessories that should be added if wheels are allowed...... , Thats why British Supersport bikes cost 100,000 pound + nowadays.........

People will have to start deciding where their money is best spent I guess...we all have a limited budget. I don't think in this class, to a point, rules should not be the limiting factor.

[CHOPPA]

You dont actually need to go out and buy them. The likes of Bugden Stroud Sherriffs etcs will spank us on cast iron wheels.

The price of the Carrozzeria wheels is actually pretty good though, if you look at the retail on a standard set of oem for your bike including discs is about $3500? Well im pretty sure thats what you can pick up a set of carrozzeria wheels for including discs and a sprocket. There not as light as carbon or magnesium but they are less $$ and better then standard

[CHOPPA]

There is also the argument that this will only benefit dealers, well as I read in another thread the dealers are the ones that hold our sport together so we have to support them in some respects.

Ok thats enough batting for me untill I get my price.....

[onearmedbandit]

In the meantime, why do we allow one bling part and not the other? That's the question really. If we are going to have an 'open' class, rightly or wrongly shouldn't aftermarket wheels be allowed in this class?

I'm not a racer so my opinion means jack shit and probably isn't even welcome, but I would've thought aftermarket suspension would be more of a 'safety' issue than performance. Std suspension whilst good is not up to the riggers of full on racing, whereas the std rims are up to the task. Sure performance gains are there but they do not improve the safety of the bike per se.

[Shaun]

There is also the argument that this will only benefit dealers, well as I read in another thread the dealers are the ones that hold our sport together so we have to support them in some respects.

Ok thats enough batting for me untill I get my price.....

It will ONLY benefit Importers/dealers of the wheels!

It will also TAKE SALES of the manufacturers that keep our sport ALIVE in NZ

So where is the real benefit to this rule, if it is introduced

[Biggles08]

Ok thats enough batting for me untill I get my price.....

Hahaaa...you just quoted your price in your previous post didn't you?!

[imdying]

Holy shit, we agree on something! Great way to add four K to the cost of building a bike. 12 if you want three sets of trick rims.

I see your point, but as the first post alluded to, the importers are happy to do deals for races, and you can get them out of the states from the likes of SK for about 2.4k a set.

[Biggles08]

I'm not a racer so my opinion means jack shit and probably isn't even welcome, but I would've thought aftermarket suspension would be more of a 'safety' issue than performance. Std suspension whilst good is not up to the riggers of full on racing, whereas the std rims are up to the task. Sure performance gains are there but they do not improve the safety of the bike per se.

There is so much to be discussed about this post and you are wrong...your opinion DOES mean shit

The fact is reducing your unsprung weight improves your suspension regardless of if it is aftermarket or not....the variance of improvement is just dependent on the quality of your suspension (if that makes sense). So if you wish to argue safety reasons, then this issue remains relevant for aftermarket wheels as they improve how your suspension reacts to the road surface...especially on bumpy surfaces (which NZ has plenty of). Personally I believe in the open class, the reasoning of safety is a smoke screen as really they are after faster laps any way they can and if you can brake 20m later than your competition then you want them.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm not a racer so my opinion means jack shit and probably isn't even welcome, but I would've thought aftermarket suspension would be more of a 'safety' issue than performance. Std suspension whilst good is not up to the riggers of full on racing, whereas the std rims are up to the task. Sure performance gains are there but they do not improve the safety of the bike per se.

The sooner we go back to senior production the better for NZ road racing. Fuck the mods full stop.

Over to you Robert...

[imdying]

The fact is reducing your unsprung weight improves your suspension regardless of if it is aftermarket or not

That seems like a fair point... I've seen you nut jobs race, and at that pace everything sure better be working together harmoniously

[onearmedbandit]

There is so much to be discussed about this post and you are wrong...your opinion DOES mean shit

The fact is reducing your unsprung weight improves your suspension regardless of if it is aftermarket or not....the variance of improvement is just dependent on the quality of your suspension (if that makes sense). So if you wish to argue safety reasons, then this issue remains relevant for aftermarket wheels as they improve how your suspension reacts to the road surface...especially on bumpy surfaces (which NZ has plenty of). Personally I believe in the open class, the reasoning of safety is a smoke screen as really they are after faster laps any way they can and if you can brake 20m later than your competition then you want them.

I know the advantages of light weight wheels, for my road bike I'd love a set of them not only for the improved look but the better acceleration, braking and response in handling. And in the open class I can understand 100% why you would want them. And I understand how they make your suspension work 'easier'. However, if you had the choice, would you rather run std suspension on NZ's tracks with aftermarket rims or vice-versa? (in terms of safety - my point being that ultimately suspension is a more critical upgrade that rims)

The only disadvantage I can see to them of course is the cost, and if teams are already struggling to pay the bills adding further opportunities for increased costs will only discourage them from competing. Yes it does seem to fly in the face of an 'open' class, but we are a small nation with limited money in this sport already.

Bring on an extra sponsor/supporter of the series is definitely attractive, only if however it doesn't mean the loss of any current supporters (dropping out due to increased cost).

Fuck I'd love to see BSB spec Superbikes racing here, what a sigh that would be. But can anyone afford it.

[Biggles08]

This is straight off the CARROZZERIA website FYI:

Carrozzeria Forged Rims are 20–40% lighter than stock, depending on model. Reducing weight on a motorcycle will always make it accelerate, corner and brake better, but some weight reductions are much more valuable then others. Motorcycle weight can be classified in two ways; sprung or unsprung and rotating or non-rotating. Wheel weight is both rotating and unsprung, which as you will read is the most significant weight to remove.

Sprung weight is everything that suspension holds up, unsprung weight is the wheel, sprocket, caliper, disks, axle and a percentage of the shock and swing arm. Unsprung weight is the nemesis of the suspension in the war to maintain tire contact with the tarmac. The less unsprung weight the more effectively the suspension and ultimately the tires can do their jobs. To explain this lets pretend you had a job in which you had to raise and lower a hammer as moving obstacles came by on some sort of moving conveyor belt. First you had a hammer with a 1 pound head. As the conveyor belt moved faster at some point it would become impossible to move quickly enough and the hammer would be hit be an obstacle. If you used a hammer with a ½ pound head you would be able to negotiate the moving obstacles at a greater speed. Now imagine the hammerhead is the wheel, your wrist is the suspension system and the moving conveyor with obstacles is the bumpy tarmac. This is why most cars have independent suspensions. Reducing unsprung weight will improve the traction especially in bumpy corners.
Rotating weight on a motorcycle counts twice every time you accelerate or brake. The reason for this is the engine must increase both the wheels’ linear velocity as well as their rotational velocity. It is a little more complicated in reality, but each pound you remove from the wheels is equal to approximately 2 or more pounds removed from the chassis. Reducing the weight of you wheels will allow your bike to not only accelerate faster, but brake better as well.

An additional benefit to reducing rotating weight it the reduction in gyro effect of the wheels. The easiest way to understand this is to conduct an experiment at home. Get the front wheel off your bicycle. Hold the axle with your hands and have a partner spin the wheel at a moderate speed. As the wheel spins pretend you are the forks and “turn” the wheel. You now have a feel for gyroscopic forces. Now imagine what a motorcycle wheel with much greater weight and speed goes through when you attempt to change directions quickly in a in a series of turns.

[Biggles08]

However, if you had the choice, would you rather run std suspension on NZ's tracks with aftermarket rims or vice-versa? (in terms of safety - my point being that ultimately suspension is a more critical upgrade that rims)

That is a fair point but also lacking in facts. Some stock suspension units are pretty bloody good...look at the Showa 'big bore' front end Nick Cole lugged his arse around on to WIN the 600cc class this year. This was on a modified stock front end ZX6R!

I'm not saying lighter wheels are more important than aftermarket suspension, but I certainly won't say they are less important for safety either. The point being, we should be able to choose in this class.