Aftermarket wheels for new National SUPERBIKE rules

[Drew]

PS, my decision has nothing to do with the Bad mouthing of a person on here

Would be funny if someone inclined to help a racer ever did have a browse through the racing section of this place. Sign writers would go broke and all the bikes would have no stickers on them at all.

[White trash]

Would be funny if someone inclined to help a racer ever did have a browse through the racing section of this place. Sign writers would go broke and all the bikes would have no stickers on them at all.

Dude. Did you know your profile shows you as female? I mean, you do ride like a fucken girl but I thought you at least had a smallish willy hiding somewhere.......

[sidecar bob]

As perviously stated, I applaud your dedication to your sponsor but we are now flogging a seriously fucked up horse. The wheels aren't allowed under the rules. *Most* racers agree that it's a good decision. You obviously don't due to tie ins with people which is fine.

The thing you've got to be carefull about opinions and the like is that when you voice them too loudly and unwaveringly, people tend to think you're a bit of a dick and stop listening.Another prominent poster in this thread has talked a lot of arse & made promises & statements that have never materialised, yet people still cling on to every word he says

As an alternative opinion regarding Shaun to yours. About 4 years ago I got an out of the blue phone call at my job as a storeman from Mr Harris who I had previously had NOTHING to do with. At the request of a mutual friend of ours, he was bring his almost new GSX600 race bike up to Pukekohe for the weekend and wanted me to have a test on it. We got along well and Shaun continued to mentor me and drag his huge trailer all over the North Island, me racing his bike with the hope I could develop skills and we could attract sponsors. I wrecked his bike at Taupo after qualifying .03 of a second off Jays pole time in shit conditions.clearly Jay was messing with your head & leading you into a mistake, which obviously worked a treat I know Shaun had a cunning plan ligned up that was tragically cut down by his massive IOM crash but ALL of this racing and travelling was done out of his own pocket and I probably cost him 3 grand in damages.

It took a chance to get a new rider into the sport and he got me hooked. Is that not for the good of the sport Marcus? better than telling someone's sponser that they will never be fast i suppose

Incidentally, if I EVER go racing again I will ask Mr Harris VERY nicely if he would kindly look after my race bike and mentor my return. This is of course if he hasn't totally got the shits with racers calling him a "fucking wanker"you say it as if the man has never called someone a fucking wanker and pissed off over to IOM to live where he's a little bit better respected.I wouldnt beg him to stay

..........

[White trash]

Another prominent poster in this thread has talked a lot of ares & made promises & statements that have never materialised, yet people still cling on to every word he says

No they don't. I've had more than my fair share of issues with Shaun as he has with me. I don't pretend to believe everything he says.

clearly Jay was messing with your head & leading you into a mistake, which obviously worked a treat

What makes you say that? Were you there talking to Jay about it on the day? Because I've enjoyed a number of beers with him since then and the topic usually strays to the hilarious look in my eyes as he tried to avoid running me over. Or perhaps the other 33 riders on the grid were also messing with my head by allowing me to out qualify them in my second race meeting ever.......

better than telling someone's sponser that they will never be fast i suppose

POssibly. But a couple of years ago I posted a thread complaining that a VERY prominent racer in the same class as me had just done that to my main sponsor and I was told by 90% of posters that that's racing and to take a HTFU pill. So which is it, acceptable or not because now I'm confused.

you say it as if the man has never called someone a fucking wanker .I wouldnt beg him to stay

No I don't. He's called me a fucking wanker before. Funnily enough I was being one. And not begging him to stay is your opinion and choice, welcome to it. I was simply pointing out to young Mr Biggles that people hold others in different regard to they themselves.

[Robert Taylor]

Someone remarked earlier that if one buys light wheels, all will need too to compete. While they were at it they should have banned tyre warmers for the same reason, it would have returned the peace & quiet to the pits again from all the genertators & we would be able to hear all you bastards arguing.
Frankly, i think banning aftermarket wheels for cost reasons without banning aftermarket suspension for the same reason is rather odd.

No its similiar mentality to other domestic racing classes around the world. Bikes at that level need better suspension first and foremost, be they heavily modified stock units or race thoroughbred aftermarket items that apart from a couple of very obvious benefits also have another very HUGE benefit. The ability to make setting changes ( external and internal ) with minimal fuss and very very quickly. Given that we have our own diversity of tracks thats an important factor .
So its a no brainer that good suspension is higher up the priority list than aftermarket wheels.
No one here is arguing the very real technical advantages of super lightweight wheels but it comes down to a line in the sand. Many racers struggle to afford the cost of a spare set of wheels as it is and as has been correctly pointed out ( without getting into other issues of purchasing offshore ad infinitum ) much of this stuff is purchased via e-bay or even borrowed etc.
Aftermarket wheels would have been a very significant cost elevation that even the distributor that most backs road racing was uneasy about. How do I know? Because I spoke to them about it Friday afternoon.
As I also stated in a prevoius post aftermarket forks were banned several seasons back and I totally accepted that without making a noise as even then I knew that the potential sales of these were a handful at best. Id love to sell a few sets of NZ$20K Ohlins forks ( just like you see fitted to the second level bikes in WSBK ) but it just aint going to happen.

[Drew]

Dude. Did you know your profile shows you as female? I mean, you do ride like a fucken girl but I thought you at least had a smallish willy hiding somewhere.......

Yeah, I think Shane changed it when he condemned me to the pink hell. Dunno how to change it back.

[Biggles08]

You sure are doing well at looking straight past the point man.

The GEOMETRY changes required, to best utilise the reduced unsprung weight are quite substantial. I am not talking about the clickers, or even the valving at this point, I am referring to the steering angle, the swingarm pivot position, and swingarm angle. Those things are tricky, and really important to stability.

To run at the front (which is where "racers" want to be, rather than circulating for personal pleasure), it is the ONLY option to run the same wheels all the time. That said, only buying one spare set is silly, and quite possibly dangerous.

Ya get it that time, or shall I start drawing a picture?

oooo...picture please!

[sugilite:Me]

I've always thought it is not really rocket science to work out what top level NZ racing needs. More riders on the grid. Thats not going to happen in this country with check book racing. It's the same old 3 to 5 riders at the top then the also rans, and I predict the list of also rans will drop more and more as they lose interest in spending 40+k to have their arses kicked. Admittedly, the top guys are there because they actually are the best riders. So naturally the money which =- hot bits will follow them. How many superbikes on the grid last season? 10?

With equipment parity, There are riders capable of keeping the fast guys in sight, they will then start to even challenge the established order given an even playing field. Make the bikes affordable and you will get more good riders moving up from the other classes too. I reckon 10 bikes on the grid looks pathetic.

A simple recipe I would have thought would be....
Slip on muffler (stock mufflers to expensive to crunch)
Power commander (to allow for muffler)
Rear shock and fork internals (standard shocks just wear tyres much faster, so false economy)
Sprockets, Brake pads, Brake lines
Slicks (they last longer)
Go racing, enjoy.

Who knows, the larger grids, and closer racing might even encourage a spectator to turn up

[Biggles08]

I was simply pointing out to young Mr Biggles ....

HA! I like hanging out with old fogy's like you WT...calling me young! sweet!!!

[Robert Taylor]

I didn't say I dont enjoy it if I dont win. I have won VERY few races, but it's a race! I still do it to try and win.

There was very little chance when I rode a superbike, but that didn't mean I would go out and take it easy. Robert was pulling the the shocks out of their bikes every race, he's bound by the human condition to get it wrong some time, and I might have been able to capitalise on it.

Its not actually getting it wrong Drew but detractors ( everyone has detractors ) capitalise on the visibility of me pulling shocks apart all the time. Truth is we are always searching for even better settings, sometimes we find it sometimes we dont.
The very top riders that we work for know that we dont mind very hard work. Last year we installed a shorter pullrod on the CBR1000s ( totally legal despite poorly researched allegations by another post ) and that in turn required a slightly different valving spec. And then we recieved new test pistons from Ohlins. And then we were the first domestic racing class in the world to race with NIX30s, recieiving pre-production cartridges. And then we had to start over with settings as the Euro settings didnt suit us. And so on, people often like to believe the worst and competitors ( that should know better) make a play on such perceptions.
And a word about Shaun, sure enough he has his character flaws ( like everyone ) but nobody can deny his passion and his enthusiasm where he has dived into his own pockets ( and more than people realise ) What is shameful is a handful of people that have abused his goodwill and I dont blame him for feeling aggrieved about that.

[sidecar bob]

I've always thought it is not really rocket science to work out what top level NZ racing needs. More riders on the grid. Thats not going to happen in this country with check book racing. It's the same old 3 to 5 riders at the top then the also rans, and I predict the list of also rans will drop more and more as they lose interest in spending 40+k to have their arses kicked. Admittedly, the top guys are there because they actually are the best riders. So naturally the money which =- hot bits will follow them. How many superbikes on the grid last season? 10?

With equipment parity, There are riders capable of keeping the fast guys in sight, they will then start to even challenge the established order given an even playing field. Make the bikes affordable and you will get more good riders moving up from the other classes too. I reckon 10 bikes on the grid looks pathetic.

A simple recipe I would have thought would be....
Slip on muffler (stock mufflers to expensive to crunch)
Power commander (to allow for muffler)
Rear shock and fork internals (standard shocks just wear tyres much faster, so false economy)
Sprockets, Brake pads, Brake lines
Slicks (they last longer)
Go racing, enjoy.

Who knows, the larger grids, and closer racing might even encourage a spectator to turn up

Take a lesson from sidecars before its too late for you guys too. Expensive bikes deplete the grid.
A full sidecar field last season probably cost the same as one five seasons ago, except that five seasons ago it was spread over thee times the number of machines worth an average of a third of the money each.

[Robert Taylor]

I've always thought it is not really rocket science to work out what top level NZ racing needs. More riders on the grid. Thats not going to happen in this country with check book racing. It's the same old 3 to 5 riders at the top then the also rans, and I predict the list of also rans will drop more and more as they lose interest in spending 40+k to have their arses kicked. Admittedly, the top guys are there because they actually are the best riders. So naturally the money which =- hot bits will follow them. How many superbikes on the grid last season? 10?

With equipment parity, There are riders capable of keeping the fast guys in sight, they will then start to even challenge the established order given an even playing field. Make the bikes affordable and you will get more good riders moving up from the other classes too. I reckon 10 bikes on the grid looks pathetic.

A simple recipe I would have thought would be....
Slip on muffler (stock mufflers to expensive to crunch)
Power commander (to allow for muffler)
Rear shock and fork internals (standard shocks just wear tyres much faster, so false economy)
Sprockets, Brake pads, Brake lines
Slicks (they last longer)
Go racing, enjoy.

Who knows, the larger grids, and closer racing might even encourage a spectator to turn up

Sentiments not too far off the mark.

[sidecar bob]

No its similiar mentality to other domestic racing classes around the world. Bikes at that level need better suspension first and foremost, be they heavily modified stock units or race thoroughbred aftermarket items that apart from a couple of very obvious benefits also have another very HUGE benefit. The ability to make setting changes ( external and internal ) with minimal fuss and very very quickly. Given that we have our own diversity of tracks thats an important factor .
So its a no brainer that good suspension is higher up the priority list than aftermarket wheels.
No one here is arguing the very real technical advantages of super lightweight wheels but it comes down to a line in the sand. Many racers struggle to afford the cost of a spare set of wheels as it is and as has been correctly pointed out ( without getting into other issues of purchasing offshore ad infinitum ) much of this stuff is purchased via e-bay or even borrowed etc.
Aftermarket wheels would have been a very significant cost elevation that even the distributor that most backs road racing was uneasy about. How do I know? Because I spoke to them about it Friday afternoon.
As I also stated in a prevoius post aftermarket forks were banned several seasons back and I totally accepted that without making a noise as even then I knew that the potential sales of these were a handful at best. Id love to sell a few sets of NZ$20K Ohlins forks ( just like you see fitted to the second level bikes in WSBK ) but it just aint going to happen.

Is it possible that the distributor that most backs road racing is also the distributor most likley to sell new O.E.M wheels to racers?
Allowing an aftermarket rear shock but not aftermarket forks is a little like allowing a carbon rear rim, but not a front one isint it?

[Biggles08]

Many racers struggle to afford the cost of a spare set of wheels as it is and as has been correctly pointed out ( without getting into other issues of purchasing offshore ad infinitum ) much of this stuff is purchased via e-bay or even borrowed etc.
Aftermarket wheels would have been a very significant cost elevation that even the distributor that most backs road racing was uneasy about. How do I know? Because I spoke to them about it Friday afternoon.
As I also stated in a prevoius post aftermarket forks were banned several seasons back and I totally accepted that without making a noise as even then I knew that the potential sales of these were a handful at best. Id love to sell a few sets of NZ$20K Ohlins forks ( just like you see fitted to the second level bikes in WSBK ) but it just aint going to happen.

I don't really believe its a fair comparison you are making Robert...I remember not too long ago when purchasing an Ohlins TTX36 was much less expensive by buying off ebay. You have addressed this issue by negotiating better prices from your supplier and now it is a no brainier for those in the market for a Ohlins to get it from you (for service support etc). There will always be the argument that its cheaper to import yourself via ebay and the likes but you know more than anyone that domestic businesses cost to run. You have to pay duties / GST whereas someone can buy a 'gift' off ebay. You NEED to make a profit albeit a small one. Its not a crime to make a living out of selling products and in fact is what our country and indeed sport runs on.

so.... a FAIR comparison for the wheels needs to be made here in New Zealand. Where can people get their wheels from at present? Mainly the manufacturers / dealers. Like I have said many times so far, a set of CARROZZERIA wheels for racers are most often CHEAPER than buying OEM. If people wish to purchase wheels from ebay, so be it...its a global economy...but at least let a domestic company have a crack at this important performance enhancer.

On the other points you made re the forks having being banned....well maybe the conversation needed to be had about maybe only allowing aftermarket 'alloy' wheels to minimize the extra cost's associated with the likes of Carbon wheels (even though personally I would love to see these allowed too...even tho we don't deal with them). This would be a simple answer in the same vein as allowing internal cartridges for the forks but not the entire forks. We never had the opportunity to have this discussion on Friday afternoon and I can tell you it would have been nice to have possibly cleared up some inaccurate cost presumptions that appear to have been made.

[cowpoos]

Last year we installed a shorter pullrod on the CBR1000s .

Linkages can be changed or modified for next year....