Aftermarket wheels for new National SUPERBIKE rules

[CHOPPA]

This thread needs to go in the pd forum it is so far off topic and it really isnt doing any good for racing or sponsors of the sport

[Nonbeliever]

Great one mate

cheers, mate

[Nonbeliever]

I'm with you 100%. If I thought I could go an buy a used GSXR1000L0, put some fibreglass fairings on it and go racing...I'd fucking near consider it.

I bet there are many with the same thought

[sidecar bob]

I'm with you 100%. If I thought I could go an buy a used GSXR1000L0, put some fibreglass fairings on it and go racing...I'd fucking near consider it. It's how it used to be. Strange that when that's how it actually was...we produced some of the best road racers NZ has seen.

Yep, & some of us old cunts had a ball on & off track doing it & didnt need to sell the family silver to do so.
Heres a solution, make the rule either atermarket shock, OR aftermarket wheels for those that cant be arsed with the constant fettling.

[The Locco'n'Motion]

Hi Dude - Everyone is Allowed to Have an Opinion, but that is about all it is "An Opinion"

What is required is Engineering Science - Facts - The Basic Facts Of Physic's.

Tell me this - Why Do Racers the World Over Use Forged Pistons, Con Rod,s Crank Shafts, wheels and such like??

I'll tell ya why!!! - Because The Increase In Strength can be by Factors of three or more, and the reduction in rotational Mass can be as much as 40+% Lower than OEM Cast Materials of the same nature - EG Steel With Steel or Alloy with Alloy of the same Grade & Type.

So the Laws of Motor Cycle Rotational Mass are the same when it comes to the Wheels - Take 6kg's out of your wheels and perhaps we can safely say you have taken 18kg's Off the Sprung Chassis.

What does the Suspension actually do??

Well its sole purpose in life is to Deal with the "SPRING WEIGHT" of the Chassis and everything on it.

Therefore - What deals with the "UN-SPRUNG" Weight of the Wheels that spin at some hideous speeds and the only control over this Rotataional Weight is through the Tyres and the Steering Geometry of the Chassis.

So when you allege and air your 'Opinion' that Lighter Wheels Have Less Significance than an Ohlins you simply express your lack of knowledge of the the Performance Dynamic's of a Motorycle Rolling Chassis and its ability to deal with the Surfaces it travels over & in the case of Raqcing Motorycles at considerable speeds.

I agree that Chassis Dynamic's as controled by your Ohlins still has to be Set Up For Each Track, but its overall performance will be greatly Enhanced by increased Track Lap Times Because of the use of Lighter Wheels with their Centre Of Mass Located as in teh Case of the Carrozzeria Forged Alloys Very Tightly Around the Axle Hub which Impacts the Moment Of Enertia of the Wheels.

Heightened Performance Comes from the Reduction of Effort (Horse Power or Kilowatts) Required to Motivate the Wheels in the first Instance and Gyroscopic Forces exerted on the front wheel when turning in are Greatly Reduced (Gives a Reduction in Tyre Wear) to enable a Higher Corner Speed with greater Safety and Precision.

Then there is the fact that the Brakes are working at a lesser effort to slow the Rotational Wheel Wieght Down which Implies that the Rate of Deceleration Effort is enhanced which one again implies that the bike will decelerate quicker meaning that you can brake later and - bingo Go Around the Corner Faster and Bingo Maybe over a 10 lapper you get to Win The Race rather than a lesser result which is what I thought Racing was all about???

Help me here but this is not the Opinion of me as the Importer - Rather it is a Statement of Physic's & Engineering Scientific Facts.

So how'se that???

Tell me then "Why should my Forged Wheels be exlcuded when Ohlins and all the other Aftermarket Performance Parts Are Not."

Dollar For Dollar if you fit my Tri-R Race Grade DOT & JAL Approved Wheels to your race bike you will get a bigger Bang for your Race Dollar in One hit than any other way. This I beleive from my knowledge of Race Suspension Parts Costs is a Fate Compli.

Rock on & Race Hard - Choice is what it is all about & FACTS Oh Yea don't forget the Real Facts.
The Locc'n'Motion

I have to disagree on the wheels as being equally important. When I raced a zx10R, I took it to the track for it's 1st test day - it was bone stock, I only put old slicks on. On lap 3 I was doing a 1:10, then lap 4 the shock went off in a big way and it was down to 1:12's. I would conservatively say that just an ohlins shock alone (never mind fork internals) I would easily cut 3 seconds of that 1:12 time (for me).
When I went from standard wheels to marchesini racing mags on another super bike, yeah, sure acceleration was a little better as was the flickability, but no way was it three seconds a lap better, and they did not save my tyres anywhere near as much as a good shock would.

[cowpoos]

Perhaps as the Importer I can add something Factual to the Generally Very Emotive and Groundless comments in this thread.

I note that you can still spend - Thousands of Bucks on Suspension System Mod's that have to be tuned at everty race meeting for every track - Perhaps some FACTS ON WHAT THE COST OF ALL THESE MUTLIPLE VARIABLES CAN COST TO DEAL WITH????

If you were to Take the Basic Laws of Physic's and apply them then by Scientific Comparison and Analysis a Set of Wheels that Weighs up to 40% LESS!!! yes that is Correct, will Make a Substantive Improvement "ONE OFF" to the Performance Characteristics of your bike Period Not Further Adjustmet Required.

As for the Costs - Well Get the Facts From Me if you are a Racer - but it ain't gonna be $4k per wheel set and you also really aught to ask what you get for the price you pay.

When you see what any Prominant Aftermarket Susepension Units Cost to buy and then to operate - well you never know it could make perfect sense FINCANCIALLY to Have the Wheels and Work with the OEM Suspension Components and see what Performance Results You Really Get.

Nevertheless it is always a Choice - You Dohn't ahve to have them just like you don't ahve to ahve Ohlins - it is the Racers & Race Bike Builders Choice.

I guess that is truly what this is all about - HAVING A CHOICE!!!

Lets face it Racing isn't for those with NO MONEY it is exactly the Oposite - You Have to have some money and also it depends if you want to Get a Break on any of the Overseas Pro Circuits like the AMA / SBK / MotoGP!!! God Forbid it if there were to be a KIWI Rider That Made it into the MotoGP because he had the Real Choice to Be able to buy Top Line DOT / JAL Road Certified Aftermarket Wheels???

Wouldn't it be Great to ahve a KIWI back in those Comp's like Young Nick Cole.

So far I have read only a whole line of Drivel about Highly Charged Emotional Oppinions but nothing that has any Factual Basis!!

So lets hear from you race guys out there who have done your homework on the Material Facts.

The Fact is if you don't do anything to advance with Technology you will just go BACKWARDS AT AN INCREASING RATE OF KPH'S INTO OBLIVION.

Anyone Interested in Seeing Choppa Get onto a World Super Bike??? What about Nick Cole??

Well you won't if we as Kiwi's persist in Keeping Our Heads in the Sand as all other nations like Big Bro Occa Ozzies hit the big time in the AMA and all of the other international classes.


Come on - Burt Monro had a Can Do Spirit and he had far less money to play with than all of today's current competitors have!!! Think About it & maybe give it up for a New Idea to help get more Sponsor Involvement in the Sport to see it flourish rather than attrophy and diminish into a Naggers Column for Has Been's.

Cheers - Let MNZ Give Aftermarket Wheels a Go & Help Rejuvinate some Factual Thinking into the World of NZ's Premier Road Racing Scene....

Rock On Y'all

aye???? how are your wheels going to help someone race to a higher level??? the less cost there are...the more the playing field lowers....and it will never effect the talent of riders.

You have had some top NZ racers and suspension technicians post on this thread...none of them were Pro Yourself and marcus's points....maybe you just need to conceed defeat....and realise your view is not shared with the majority....simple....don't make the punters or potential punts not deal with you now because of the way you and your sponsered rider are acting.

[The Locco'n'Motion]

Sounds Good In Theory:

I'm still with having choice and besides "How Many Years is it since we had a Credible KIWI Racer on the International Road Race Circuit Scene??"

Who Cares how big your Balls are - I want to see a winner and if the AMA runs aftermarket forged wheels - What's with the KIWI Establishment once again trying to be so Idealogically Pure"

Sounds Like Aunty Helen to Me??!!



The Locco'n'Motion

Yep, & some of us old cunts had a ball on & off track doing it & didnt need to sell the family silver to do so.
Heres a solution, make the rule either atermarket shock, OR aftermarket wheels for those that cant be arsed with the constant fettling.

[Owl]

So how'se that???

Pretty poor from an english perspective!

[White trash]

I'm with you 100%. If I thought I could go an buy a used GSXR1000L0, put some fibreglass fairings on it and go racing...I'd fucking near consider it. It's how it used to be. Strange that when that's how it actually was...we produced some of the best road racers NZ has seen.

Awesome. Read the Superstock rules, buy your thou', we'll see ya at Round I big fella.

[The Locco'n'Motion]

Ya right on there Choppa - So much Drivel Opinion and No Facts.

Where are the Innovators in MNZ & Road Racer's Fraternity that are thinking of the Future of KIWI Racers on the International Scene in the Premier Classes???

It seems that the typical Iconic KIWI Paranoia is that - Everything has to be Cheap!!! Oh & Good Quality Too!!

Since when has Racing Ever Been Cheap???!!!!

How do you attract New Blood & Sponsors if the Rules are just so far behind the International 8 Ball that we are fast becoming an Isolated Bunch of Backward looking Ideological Fundamentalits!

There are Plenty of Classes for Everyone to Race at their Affordability Level, but The Premier Classes - This should be the Area we promote NZ's Best Rising Young Talent to take the Leap Onto the International Scene.

With the kind of thinking on this Thread - NZ Racers will become simply Hixtorical Nostalgia.

I hate that thought with a vengance and the MNZ Leaders should be thinking of this rather than the sort of thinking that has been spued out in this column to date.



The Locco'n'
Motion.

This thread needs to go in the pd forum it is so far off topic and it really isnt doing any good for racing or sponsors of the sport

[White trash]

This thread needs to go in the pd forum it is so far off topic and it really isnt doing any good for racing or sponsors of the sport

Rubish Chop. Prolonged healthy debate is great and its only got mildly personal a couple of times. Keep it open.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

fark me! forget the wheels, just get out there and twist the throttle harder than the other dude!

[The Locco'n'Motion]

Oh I am not saying that the Wheels Alone are going to Maker a Rider Better - That is Called Rider Skill of course - BUT and it is a big but - Unsprung Weight is the Nemesis of any motorcycle - That is the Fact's of the Matter - it ain't my opinion ya know.

Riding Talent is a field apart from Chassis Dynamic's & Performance - BUT - If you give a Great Rider Better Machinery Dynamics then they can Go Faster & Win!

That is what racing is all about too!

So in reply to your question - "How are lighter and stronger wheels going to help someone race to a higher level?"

Pretty much because they will be able (if their suspension tech's are top notch) to go Faster Around the Enture Track including the Corners!

Why the bike accelerates faster, stops faster and the reduction in Gyroscopic Force which is a Counter to Excelent turn in into the corners will give the racer the ability to Go Through the Corner at a Higher Corner Speed Given the Bike is Well Dialed in on all other Suspension Settings to suit any given tracks sudrface and grip characterisitic's.

I hope that answers the question satisfactorily enough to enable you to at least ascede to that bit of factual material.

The Choice is still with the racer where he spends his budget in terms of being able to attain the fastest lap times consistently around any given track in Kiwi Land.

aye???? how are your wheels going to help someone race to a higher level??? the less cost there are...the more the playing field lowers....and it will never effect the talent of riders.

You have had some top NZ racers and suspension technicians post on this thread...none of them were Pro Yourself and marcus's points....maybe you just need to conceed defeat....and realise your view is not shared with the majority....simple....don't make the punters or potential punts not deal with you now because of the way you and your sponsered rider are acting.

[Tony.OK]

What does the Suspension actually do??

Well its sole purpose in life is to Deal with the "SPRING WEIGHT" of the Chassis and everything on it.

Therefore - What deals with the "UN-SPRUNG" Weight of the Wheels that spin at some hideous speeds and the only control over this Rotataional Weight is through the Tyres and the Steering Geometry of the Chassis.

So you're saying that hitting a bump with a wheel of any sort needs no involvement with suspension?
If you want to talk physics...............do you not think that forces applied to a lighter wheel are any different than a heavier wheel? Something has to control those forces.......its called suspension.........and the better you can tune that control then the better everything works in harmony.

Mate I think the rims are bloody nice, and was maybe the 1st person in NZ to have some, but the ship has sailed on them being allowed. Unfortunately most bikes come with a free set of rims attached, so then that reduces costs (and thats what NZ needs) in that less purchases are needed.

No one is disputing that light rims are better...........good on you for getting another bike and rider on the grid

[sidecar bob]

Rubish Chop. Prolonged healthy debate is great and its only got mildly personal a couple of times. Keep it open.

Of course if it goes on too long, or too many people become involved, it becomes a mass debate & we dont want that.