Aftermarket wheels for new National SUPERBIKE rules

[cowpoos]

Sounds Good In Theory:

I'm still with having choice and besides "How Many Years is it since we had a Credible KIWI Racer on the International Road Race Circuit Scene??"

Who Cares how big your Balls are - I want to see a winner and if the AMA runs aftermarket forged wheels - What's with the KIWI Establishment once again trying to be so Idealogically Pure"

Sounds Like Aunty Helen to Me??!!



The Locco'n'Motion

Your full of crap... and at $4500 a set.. --> http://www.loccomotion.com/rjzc/inde...roducts_id=210 your fucking dreaming as well...I just got a price from a large USA website that ships here...$2600 for gsxr1000 09-10 kit.

[White trash]

Ya right on there Choppa - So much Drivel Opinion and No Facts.

Where are the Innovators in MNZ & Road Racer's Fraternity that are thinking of the Future of KIWI Racers on the International Scene in the Premier Classes???

It seems that the typical Iconic KIWI Paranoia is that - Everything has to be Cheap!!! Oh & Good Quality Too!!

Since when has Racing Ever Been Cheap???!!!!

How do you attract New Blood & Sponsors if the Rules are just so far behind the International 8 Ball that we are fast becoming an Isolated Bunch of Backward looking Ideological Fundamentalits!

There are Plenty of Classes for Everyone to Race at their Affordability Level, but The Premier Classes - This should be the Area we promote NZ's Best Rising Young Talent to take the Leap Onto the International Scene.

With the kind of thinking on this Thread - NZ Racers will become simply Hixtorical Nostalgia.

I hate that thought with a vengance and the MNZ Leaders should be thinking of this rather than the sort of thinking that has been spued out in this column to date.



The Locco'n'
Motion.

Obviously you have a heap of experience in the game and have no agendas.

Simply put. Adding cost for "non necessary" parts to the rules is pointless and will further reduce the grid numbers. So the rule was not passed. I can't understand what is so fucking difficult to understand about that. We then consign the entire Superbike class in NZ to the Historical Nostalgia department.

This is obviously where you'd rather have it.

Retard.

[White trash]

Of course if it goes on too long, or too many people become involved, it becomes a mass debate & we dont want that.

I'm all about mass debating. You know that mate

[Ozzy27]

Ya right on there Choppa - So much Drivel Opinion and No Facts.

Where are the Innovators in MNZ & Road Racer's Fraternity that are thinking of the Future of KIWI Racers on the International Scene in the Premier Classes???
I am right here and I believe I have put many time the amount of time and money into the future of NZ racers than yourself and most out without having an agenda!
The only thing stopping NZ having a racer racing internationally is Money Fact!! I had 2 ride available for one of our best up and conimg NZ riders for this year the only thing that stopped him was the $100k+living expenses!

It seems that the typical Iconic KIWI Paranoia is that - Everything has to be Cheap!!! Oh & Good Quality Too!!

Since when has Racing Ever Been Cheap???!!!! Never!! But we need to be smart

How do you attract New Blood & Sponsors if the Rules are just so far behind the International 8 Ball that we are fast becoming an Isolated Bunch of Backward looking Ideological Fundamentalits!Our rules are not far behind the rest of the world!! Oz std wheels Uk std wheels except s/bike USA std wheels except s/bike world std wheels except s/bike yet they all have aftermarket suspension!

There are Plenty of Classes for Everyone to Race at their Affordability Level, but The Premier Classes - This should be the Area we promote NZ's Best Rising Young Talent to take the Leap Onto the International Scene. I have raced at all level up to world Championship level as a Technican and Fact if I gave any of the 20+ international level rider the choice wheels or shock they would all take the shock

With the kind of thinking on this Thread - NZ Racers will become simply Hixtorical Nostalgia.

I hate that thought with a vengance and the MNZ Leaders should be thinking of this rather than the sort of thinking that has been spued out in this column to date.
I think you need to re read this as a lot of the people who have commented have been there and done that in NZ and internationally and have a lot more knowledge about racing motorcycles than yourself!! To be a has been you have to have been something at some time!! Please enlighten us all with your experience???


The Locco'n'
Motion.

I think this thread has gone past having any constructive benfit for anyone!!!

[White trash]

Obviously you have a heap of experience in the game and have no agendas.

Simply put. Adding cost for "non necessary" parts to the rules is pointless and will further reduce the grid numbers. So the rule was not passed. I can't understand what is so fucking difficult to understand about that. We then consign the entire Superbike class in NZ to the Historical Nostalgia department.

This is obviously where you'd rather have it.

Retard.

And furthermore, to prove a point.

If your wheels are the miracle cure that yourself and Marcus are proclaiming for setup, then obviously you WOULD need to have them to be competitive had the rules been changed. And therefore raised the cost of building a bike. You rave on about "getting with the times" so to speak, yet if the aftermarket wheels had been allowed for Supersport, we would be the ONLY domestic 600 class in the world that allowed them. How the hell is that beneficial to NZ racers again?

I've got a good idea.

Let Biggles argue the point of whether the rules should or shouldn't have been changed in your favour because he comes accross as far less of a cock than you do.

FYI it was MNZ that voted on the rules, not the posters of this thread so calling us all a bunch of backward thinkers really isn't selling your product very well.

[White trash]

I think this thread has gone past having any constructive benfit for anyone!!!

And then Chris just smashed me in far fewer words. Nice work Ozzy.

[The Locco'n'Motion]

Hi Rob:

Physic's isn't a matter of opinion and it has been around a whole lot longer than all of us giving our Tuppence Hapenny's worth of wisdom.

My Information Sources Come From a Highly Qualified Race Professional Engineer who has as part of his Credentials been the Chief Race Engineer for Kawasaki International Motorcycle Racing and who is the President of the Manufacturer I represent.

Here are his summarised thoughts on the Subject of the importance of Wheel Weight and Unsprung Masses that pertain to Motorcycle's and the Racing thereof: -

• Our products allows for enhanced ride ability and a lighter overall weight of the vehicle.

• The Forging process has been in existence for, thousands of years and by using all of the modern technological advances of the modern era the Critical “Un-Sprung” Weight of any Motorcycle can be radically reduced making the bike handle better and ride smoother.

• Because of the highest standards of strength and safety are of the utmost importance, this technology of shaping metal is still currently used in aerospace and high performance automotive industries, but never before until Hi Point introduced this in motorcycle market a few years ago.

• Forging improves the structure of metal by refining the grain size of the metal.
o This process makes metal stronger and docile than cast metal.
o The metal also has a greater resistance to fatigue and impact.
o Carrozzeria Wheels are typically exhibiting up to 1.8 times more strength than other manufactures that use a non-forging process.
o As a result, our safety standards set by the NHTSA, D.O.T. and Japan's JWL.
• When you compare our Forged Aluminium Wheels with Magnesium or Carbon Wheels, yes they are lighter, but when you think of your safety and durability, none of them even come close to our forged aluminium wheels.

• Just ask any Professional about the benefits of Forged Aluminium versus Cast Wheels Titanium Wheels & Carbon Fibre Wheels and you see that what we are saying is indeed the Truth.

• Carrozzeria Forged Rims are made from Wrought 6151-T6 Aluminium which has an inherently better “Grain” structure and is not only stronger then cast wheels, but more uniform and consistent in quality.

o To illustrate we have compared the strength of the material used in Carrozzeria Forged Wheels with the strongest casting alloys listed in a Standard Engineering Textbook, as we do not know precisely what materials are used in stock or other aftermarket cast wheels.

o We listed the highest strength cast alloys listed in the reference Text Book.

o In reality the difference may actually be greater than shown.

o Also cast wheels are much more likely to have internal defects which will reduce the properties even more.

• Material Tensile Strength Yield Strength Elongation Product 6151-T6 44 ksi 37 ksi - 10% Carrozzeria Rims.

o A356-T6 41 ksi 30 ksi - 10% Hi-Strength Aluminium Casting Alloy

o 355-T6 42 ksi 27 ksi - 4% Typical Aluminium Casting Alloy

ZK61A-T6 45 ksi 28 ksi - 10% The Strongest Magnesium Casting Alloy Listed

• Source: Metals Handbook Desk Edition Published by American Society for Metals.

• Carrozzeria Wheels will not crack like cast magnesium wheels and will provide superior durability to the stock wheel.

• Carrozzeria Forged Rims are 20–40% lighter than stock wheel rims - depending on model. Thus Reducing Weight on a motorcycle that will allow it to always accelerate, corner and brake better.

• Some weight reductions are much more valuable than others.

o Motorcycle weight can be classified in two ways.

o Sprung or Un-Sprung and Rotating or Non-Rotating.

o Wheel weight is both rotating and Un-Sprung, which as you will read is the most significant weight to remove.

• Sprung weight is everything that suspension holds up whilst Un-Sprung weight is the wheel, sprocket, calliper, disks, axle and a percentage of the shock and swing arm.
• Un-sprung weight is the nemesis of the suspension in the war to maintain tire contact with the tarmac.

• The less unsprungun-sprung weight the more effectively the suspension and ultimately the tires can do their jobs.


• To explain this better, let’s pretend you had a job in which you had to raise and lower a hammer as moving obstacles came by on some sort of moving conveyor belt.
o First you had a hammer with a ½ Kilogram Head.

 As the conveyor belt moved faster, at some point it would become impossible to move quickly enough and the hammer would hit the Conveyor instead of the Target.

 If you used a hammer with a 250 gram head you would be able to negotiate the moving obstacles at a greater speed.

o Now imagine the hammer head is the wheel, and your wrist is the suspension system and the moving conveyor with obstacles is the bumpy tarmac.

 This is why most cars have independent suspension, thereby ‘Reducing!’ the Un-Sprung Weight, which will in turn improve the Traction, especially within bumpy corners or over Bumpy Roads.

• Rotating weight on a motorcycle counts twice every time you accelerate or brake.

o The reason for this is the engine must increase both the wheels’ linear velocity as well as their rotational velocity. It is a little more complicated in reality, but each kilogram that you remove from the wheels is equal to approximately 2 or more Kilograms being removed from the chassis.

o Reducing the weight of you wheels will allow your bike to not only accelerate faster, but brake better as well.

• An additional benefit to reducing rotating weight is that of the reduction in GYROSCOPIC Effect of the wheels.

o The easiest way to understand this is to conduct an experiment at home.

o Get the front wheel off your bicycle.

o Hold the axle with your hands and have a partner spin the wheel at a moderate speed.

o As the wheel spins pretend you are the forks and “turn” the wheel. You now have a feel for gyroscopic forces.

o Now imagine what a motorcycle wheel with much greater weight and speed goes through when you attempt to change directions quickly in a in a series of turns.

Rob:

The Point I am making is simple - Why allow expensive Aftermarket Suspension and then not allow Aftermarket Wheels that are Stronger & Lighter and therefore Safer than the Cast Alloy Equivalents?

That is intrinsicaly a bias that is not equitable in anyones measure of Rule Fairness.

Good Luck for the coming season's racing.



The Locco'n'Motion

Give it a rest Marcus and accept it, the line in the sand has been drawn and frankly you have not been around long enough to make such a statement as above with total authority. Other racers on here have used super lightweight wheels either here or overseas and given priorities I know what they would have first.

[sidecar bob]

Obviously you have a heap of experience in the game and have no agendas.

Simply put. Adding cost for "non necessary" parts to the rules is pointless and will further reduce the grid numbers. So the rule was not passed. I can't understand what is so fucking difficult to understand about that. We then consign the entire Superbike class in NZ to the Historical Nostalgia department.

This is obviously where you'd rather have it.

Retard.

Hmm, but using that theory we need to chuck away those beautiful gold shocks & tyre warmers tho bro.

[Quasievil]

I would love to get involved in this thread, shit, Mr Poos, Whitetrashy trashman, Gixxergayracer ,shauncuntharris the lot, but I wont , I wouldnt know what I was talking about anyway so will leave you to it, but can yas get a bit more agro? could be reasonably entertaining

[kiwifruit]

I would love to get involved in this thread but i'm too slow

me too

[White trash]

Hmm, but using that theory we need to chuck away those beautiful gold shocks & tyre warmers tho bro.

Sweet as my man, but the esteemed Mr Bradford (who incidentally I would consider to be of the same school as your goodself) has already explained it beautifuly.

Standard suspension does not remain constant throughout a race. It changes dramatically over a fairly small periond. 3-4 laps in Anthony's experience. That not only fucks expensive tyres very quickly, but I reckon it's reasonably risky.

Tyrewarmers? Ever ridden a Superbike without em? I have. Crashed turn two of the outlap (however that's not unusual). They also massively rduce cold shear, therefore saving me bucks.

Now I have no doubt that these flash lightweight wheels will probably reduce tyre wear to a small extent also, but it'll take ten years to pay for the purchase cost. The BIG factor is my "shitty, grainy and wek cast wheels to not deteriorate in terms of performance over the space of a race, a meeting or in fact a season. So as I can rely on them to be reliable, I'll stick with the happily UNLESS the rules are changed and half the field (seeking every small improvement) has them and I therefore feel the need to get them to enjoy the same performance benefits.

So huge difference between warmers, suspension and forged wheels for my mind.

Quasi, you're a fuckwit. (Agro enough for you bro?)

[White trash]

Hi Rob:

Physic's isn't a matter of opinion and it has been around a whole lot longer than all of us giving our Tuppence Hapenny's worth of wisdom.
blah blah technical stuff blah blah
equitable in anyones measure of Rule Fairness.

Good Luck for the coming season's racing.



The Locco'n'Motion

No one's said the wheels aren't good or of performance benefit. You're right, physics is hard to argue with. What some of us are saying is that we're happy the rule didn't change because we don't want to feel pressured to have had to purchase them to be competitive. It's money added to the budget and that budget gets smaller every year it seems.

[Quasievil]

Quasi, you're a fuckwit. (Agro enough for you bro?)

Cheers , now I feel at least a little bit involved.

[sidecar bob]

Sweet as my man, but the esteemed Mr Bradford (who incidentally I would consider to be of the same school as your goodself) Go on, say it, old schoolhas already explained it beautifuly.

Standard suspension does not remain constant throughout a race. It changes dramatically over a fairly small periond. 3-4 lapsso does my body, but the rule makers dont seem to give a fuck about that in Anthony's experience. That not only fucks expensive tyres very quickly, but I reckon it's reasonably risky.

Tyrewarmers? Ever ridden a Superbike without em?yep, i fired my RSV down the road on a pair of cold Pilot Race I have. Crashed turn two of the outlap (however that's not unusual). They also massively rduce cold shear, therefore saving me bucks.

Now I have no doubt that these flash lightweight wheels will probably reduce tyre wear to a small extent also, but it'll take ten years to pay for the purchase cost. The BIG factor is my "shitty, grainy and wek cast wheels to not deteriorate in terms of performance over the space of a race, a meeting or in fact a season. So as I can rely on them to be reliable, I'll stick with the happily UNLESS the rules are changed and half the field (seeking every small improvement) has them and I therefore feel the need to get them to enjoy the same performance benefits.

So huge difference between warmers, suspension and forged wheels for my mindyeah yeah, but its an entertaining way to fill in a cold rainy Sunday afternoon.

Quasi, you're a fuckwit. (Agro enough for you bro?)

Youre a cunt W.T, just to keep the agro up to the required minimum

[White trash]

Youre a cunt W.T, just to keep the agro up to the required minimum

Lol. I wonder if the weather had been nice out today whether this thread would have disappeared after five pages. There'd be a whole less cocksuckers talking shit and throwing big words around that's for sure