Good Heavens

[Okey Dokey]

I was raised in an Irish catholic family, and will try to share my viewpoint on some stuff that has been touched on in this thread. When any of my relatives died, there was invariably an open casket viewing at set times, and a more informal wake, prior to the funeral. At these occasions, friends and relatives talked about the dead and shared stories etc.

The funeral mass is pretty standard form, and usually the priest of the parish, who knew the deceased and his family and community, would offer some personal but fairly formal words in the mass as a the eulogy. Family members could participate by perhaps doing one of the readings from the bible, or bearing the chalice etc to the altar at the appropriate time. I'm pretty sure believers found the whole thing familiar and comforting. The service had a type of dignity about it.

I have been uncomfortable at funerals where sobbing relatives gasp and cry trying to read or say a few words. So I guess it is a bit of what you are used to, or expect. The worst service I recall was one where the mike was passed around so that all and sundry could say a few words if they wished. There were some awful recollections aired, which could only have caused distress to the widow and family.

The handshake of peace, where we clasp the hands of those seated around us, happens at every service, and always seemed a nice expression of what the religious community was meant to be about.

Anyway, there are some thoughts for you. Old chestnut: What is the difference between an irish wedding & an irish funeral? One less drunk

[Headbanger]

Ive always found Catholic events insulting, Marriages and funerals that I have attended seem to be all about the church and an opportunity to lecture those attending.

Fuck em. Bastards know fuck all about the world, Wrapping themselves up in their delusions and judging everyone, Fuckers need a knuckle sandwich and a size 10 boot up the arse.

Went to a very close friends funeral a few years back, He was a fuckin pirate, Biker all his life, and the funeral wasn't about him or his life...oh wait, they had the part where they went on about sin.

I went outside and looked at the bikes, And I paid my respects to that man that he was, Not the fuckwit bullshit in the church.

[BAD DAD]

I think a lot of us have experienced that when first time in unfamiliar surroundings. My own include:

RSA - swilling down a pint when lights suddenly went dim, people stop drinking and rise, and then some Aussie voice starts up....

ACC demonstration rally - wandering arund in the sun bullshitting about bikes when someone from the Labour party gets up and starts chanting, everyone shuts up and faces the front then some people even clapped and cheered....

Court - some guy with a tatty wig, once again everyone had to stand then sit...

Rugby game - went to drink beer and see a bit of ball sport but found that proceedings began by chest beating display that regular rugby goers told me was a haka...

Council meeting....

Point is that we can all be suprised by rituals at events and wonder "what the hell was that" , and you don't even have to go to a religious ceremony to experiece it.

[Okey Dokey]

Headbanger reminded me of another point, which is SIN. I guess catholics are pretty used to the the theme that all humans are faulty and must try to live up to Jesus' example of how to live, etc, etc.

When the priest brings it up in the context of a funeral, we all reflect on our own personal shortcomings. I don't think the dead person is being singled out as a sinner. What a shame that people attending a funeral would feel that the deceased is being denigrated in this way. I hope anyone reading this will remember and not be hurt if they hear something about sin at a funeral. No wonder people get upset and angry; I never thought of it in this way.

Anyway, I hope that helps make things clearer.

[Maha]

I was raised in an Irish catholic family, and will try to share my viewpoint on some stuff that has been touched on in this thread. When any of my relatives died, there was invariably an open casket viewing at set times, and a more informal wake, prior to the funeral. At these occasions, friends and relatives talked about the dead and shared stories etc.

The funeral mass is pretty standard form, and usually the priest of the parish, who knew the deceased and his family and community, would offer some personal but fairly formal words in the mass as a the eulogy. Family members could participate by perhaps doing one of the readings from the bible, or bearing the chalice etc to the altar at the appropriate time. I'm pretty sure believers found the whole thing familiar and comforting. The service had a type of dignity about it.

I have been uncomfortable at funerals where sobbing relatives gasp and cry trying to read or say a few words. So I guess it is a bit of what you are used to, or expect. The worst service I recall was one where the mike was passed around so that all and sundry could say a few words if they wished. There were some awful recollections aired, which could only have caused distress to the widow and family.

The handshake of peace, where we clasp the hands of those seated around us, happens at every service, and always seemed a nice expression of what the religious community was meant to be about.

Anyway, there are some thoughts for you. Old chestnut: What is the difference between an irish wedding & an irish funeral? One less drunk

Thank you Okey,
'Family members could participate by perhaps doing one of the readings from the bible'
On this point, that happened, and when it did, I thought, anytime now I will get the connection between what the grandson was reading and the deceased. But no, that did not happen, he might as well have read a passage from 'Green Eggs and Ham' to be honest.

[Okey Dokey]

Yes, there are 2 readings in the mass. One old testament, one new testament. They are set, however, and the family can't pick and choose what reading they would like. In a regular mass, the priest uses his sermon to expound on the readings and relate them/interpret them for the congregation. Standby for the lecture about sin...

[Headbanger]

all humans are faulty and must try to live up to Jesus' example of how to live, etc, etc.

Fuck Jesus, and the holy goat he rode in on.

Fairy tales are entertainment not a code to live your life by.

Fair enough that back in the old days they just made shit up when they couldn't comprehend the world around them, But its had its day, Satan isn't waiting in the bowels of hell to eat your soul, You are not really drinking Christ blood you fuckin freaks, and the Church was way way way out of line suppressing the facts for the last 2000 years.

[Pixie]

's better than eating the deceased.

[Pixie]

Whats with the part where you turn to the person next to you or in front of you and offer your blessings?
I realise the church/religion has its formula, but thats like waving to someone on the road aint it?

Used to be that the Priest would bless you.
They outsource everything these days.

[Edbear]

Fuck Jesus, and the holy goat he rode in on.

Fairy tales are entertainment not a code to live your life by.

Fair enough that back in the old days they just made shit up when they couldn't comprehend the world around them, But its had its day, Satan isn't waiting in the bowels of hell to eat your soul, You are not really drinking Christ blood you fuckin freaks, and the Church was way way way out of line suppressing the facts for the last 2000 years.

Why don't you get it off your chest and tell us how you really feel....

[Maha]

I suppose the 'eating of my body and the drinking of my blood' thing is in relation to bread and wine?
Looking back on it, I think I reacted the same way when I first saw a Game of American Football.
Never watched a game again ever!

Did not understand it and had no need to.

[Okey Dokey]

oops, forgot to explain the transubstantiation stuff....

At the last supper, jesus said eat my body and drink my blood to his disciples ( take this all of you, and drink, this is the cup of my blood which has been given up for you and for all men so that sins may be forgiven). According to the catholic faith, the bread and wine is literally and really "transubstantiated" into the body and blood of jesus during the mass. It is not just symbolic to them, it is real.

Leftover wine and bread (also called the host) must be consumed. Priests and servers eat and drink whatever may be leftover: you can't just put it out for the birds.

[Big Dave]

Did not understand it and had no need to.

Sadly closed mind Maha. Here, I shall present you with some divine wisdom.

American football is a fascinating game and one of the simplest with the least penalties awarded per game.

The stop start nature of live broadcast is a drag (being conditioned to our non-stop codes), but in replay you get edited live action where it features the second most violent collisions (after ice hockey) in any ball sport. Magnificent athletes drawn from a massive gene pool operating at the highest levels.

They wear weapons on their heads and use them.

Every yard and every part of the game is statistically analysed. Also fascinating if you like sports statistics.

Some of the characters of the game are also outstanding thinkers - or entertainers.

I learnt a lot more from reading the gospel of coach Bill Parcells about human nature and man-management than any other.

I shall turn, face ESPN, and bow to the Lombardi for you. And the Green Bay Packers

[Maha]

I just have a very short attention limit is all, I dont get Aussie Rules either.
Thats where freedom of choice comes in handy Dave, I have chosen what suits me and what does not over the last 48 years and I am pretty happy with what my choice's have been so far. Suits me fine.

PS: Go The G B P'S......

[Big Dave]

I just have a very short attention limit is all, I dont get Aussie Rules either.
Thats where freedom of choice comes in handy Dave, I have chosen what suits me and what does not over the last 48 years and I am pretty happy with what my choice's have been so far. Suits me fine.

'When you don't know that you don't know, it's a lot different than when you do know that you don't know. '
Bill Parcells

'You are what you are.'
Bill Parcells


The de-fense rests. :-)