I didn't want to buy a finance company

[mashman]

Everyone with half a brain who wanted 3 - 4% more interest than the banks were giving and also a Government guaranteed deposit. You would have to be a Dick to leave money on a low interest deposit with the main Banks when the Government effectively removes the risk of a higher returning investment.
The Scheme as introduced by Labour but with the "behind the scenes" support from National was designed only to give short term support to the Finance and Banking Industry - why I'm not sure.

The real Question is why when we supposedly were over the crisis did Key extend it, especially when National supposedly had information showing that the biggest Finance Company left was in serious trouble, and not meeting its Statutory & trustee requirements. Then just to really rub salt into the wounds they not only return capital but pay interest as well - That for me is the egg turned Key and Bill whilst they remain in National lose my vote.

I must be a dick with the wrong half of brain ... or really not give a shit about making VAST sums of money, or not go looking for the loopholes to exploit etc... nah, let's stick with the half brained dick theory ...

There are shitloads of questions i'd like answered... but those who invested heavily after Cullens intervention need to be dealt with seperately and not in a positive way... because those clever Dicks, the ones with the good half of the brain, actually did nothing but knowingly rip the tax payer off... The government may be responsible for the guarantee, but those "new investors" should not be covered by that guarantee... they deserve none of my money and I SHOULD be entitled to know who they are, after all I bailed them out... bet there's a politician or 2 in there with a few BRT boys thrown in for good measure...

[MisterD]

The government may be responsible for the guarantee, but those "new investors" should not be covered by that guarantee... they deserve none of my money and I SHOULD be entitled to know who they are, after all I bailed them out... bet there's a politician or 2 in there with a few BRT boys thrown in for good measure...

That's a toughy though isn't it? The guarantee is aimed specifically at getting people to continue investing in the company, and allowing it to keep trading. Where do you draw the line?

I'd rather that all that was guaranteed was the invested sum plus a nominal interest rate, say 4%. Actually, a better idea, don't pay out cash, pay out in government bonds.

[mashman]

That's a toughy though isn't it? The guarantee is aimed specifically at getting people to continue investing in the company, and allowing it to keep trading. Where do you draw the line?

I'd rather that all that was guaranteed was the invested sum plus a nominal interest rate, say 4%. Actually, a better idea, don't pay out cash, pay out in government bonds.

Nice idea in regards to the bonds... but they should receive no interest at all... it's a failed investment, you gotta be lucky to get any money back...

[AllanB]

My Honda is a great investment - hours of fun has been and will be had in the future

I wonder if I can claim my Rego costs as a loss?

[avgas]

In 1989 the Government reduces its share to 51% by selling 34%; with 30% sold to Capital Markets Ltd, and the remainder to the general public - In 1990 the Government then had to bail out the bank to the tune of $350million to avoid the bank collapsing ... then in 1992 the National Australia Banking Group became the owners ...

It's the $350 million 1990 bail out I was referring to ...

Ah yes, but compare that to Post Office/Post Bank/NZ Post......Kiwi Bank

Also there was the Auckland Airport which I swear we bought 3 times over.

Air NZ....

NZ Rail, bought twice.....

Govt are full of dumb people whom make bad investments. They are just fortunate that some pay off.

Note however that there hasn't been a bail out from a bank since then. In-fact they have been fined more than bailed out. So assume from now on, whenever I refer to a bank, I am not referring to a "Govt deposit scheme".
Shame we don't have a govt official named "Ponzi".

[karla]

It kind of makes some sense to me - the rich few (ones with capital to invest) stay rich and the majority poor (taxpayers like us) get poorer. It's the only way a government can keep all it's people under control, by having them working hard all day - it keeps the masses from having time to stop and think, and worse, God forbid, say "this is not ok".

[HenryDorsetCase]

I wonder how much of my money went towards Dave Henderson? Maybe you and I should stake a claim on his Mig for our share? I'd be happy to share it with you - do you want the pointy end of the noisy end?

talking to someone yesterday about the MiG he said no one serious would buy it now. apparently it wasnt lifted properly when the receivers or whoever lifted it (imagine a couple of barely shaved chimps chucking a couple straps round it and lifting it up - you dont have to: thats what happened). Problem is its now slightly bent. If you dont do shit like that properly, its REAL BAD for the airframe. Bet your ass they didnt use proper techs to put the wings on again either. Imagine a couple of work experience chumps with a Warehouse brand socket set and no idea.

As for Hendo, that $17M deal still rankles me. Bloody council could have and should have got all that stuff for half that money off the mortgagee if we as ratepayers wanted it. The ONLY building with any merit at all is the Odeon theatre which they DIDNT buy and which deteriorates daily. Utter incompetency and the core reason I wont vote for parker. I wont vote for Comrade Jim either. All that motherucker needs is a big fat 'tache and "Oh look - Stalin lives"

Oh, and bailing SCF: Its not 1.6Bn: the toxic debt is around $600m, so while we have fronted $372 each, we'll get most of it back. And doing it now rather than six months ago means that Alan Hubbard has chucked all of his personal wealth (which was quite considerable) into SCF, rather than having it quarantined off.

I am interested in the exposure of the management practices etc: some interesting stuff already. Hubbard is without question as honest as the day is long, but maybe a bit past it? We'll see.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Are there any other companies currently in the scheme offering good returns?


Sounds like a good way to invest some $$$. No risk, high returns.

it ends in October (I think, or 30 September?)

[tamarillo]

We financed their roads and their return on their investments.

You would think people down south would be a bit more grateful and show less animosity to people not from their little homogenous society.

what on earth are you talking about? One problem was that whilst they had an image as a local lender they were actaully funding all kinds of crap everywhere...

[shrub]

talking to someone yesterday about the MiG he said no one serious would buy it now.

It's been display only for some time now, even converting the instruments from Russian to English was going to cost brazillans, and high tech jets don't much like sitting around in sheds for decades. My hope is Ashburton museum gets it - it would look nice beside the Harrier.

[Number One]

yup, good news all round... I know I'm really pleased to be part owner of 2 financial institutions and am absolutely ecstatic about bailing out a bunch of people that gambled and put their money into failed investments ... can't wait to start receiving my dividends

My thoughts also! So my taxes will pay to bail out a bunch of people that can actually afford to have investment/s...sucks

[HenryDorsetCase]

what on earth are you talking about? One problem was that whilst they had an image as a local lender they were actaully funding all kinds of crap everywhere...

Um, if you ever read one of their annual reports they did have a pretty good breakdown of their loans by geography, sector etc.

the "Bad" ones seem to be developer/property related in Queenstown and Orklind.

the "good" ones seem to be the farmer/small business/industrial sector.

Im not pointing the finger at you, particularly, but there seems to be a LOT of shit being talked in the media generally about this. Its not that complicated really, except for the interplay between the various organisations.

No one has mentioned that $7M they have in the bank. First thing that will happen is that the receivers will trouser that. They'll be the ones making the serious coin here. Really.

[shrub]

Um, if you ever read one of their annual reports they did have a pretty good breakdown of their loans by geography, sector etc.

the "Bad" ones seem to be developer/property related in Queenstown and Orklind.

the "good" ones seem to be the farmer/small business/industrial sector.

It seems they liked bars and hotels - some of their bad debts:

* Lenin Bar, Princes Wharf
* Dakota Bar, wharf
* Minus 5, wharf
* O'Carrolls Irish Bar, Vulcan Lane
* Hyatt Hotel, Auckland
* Leefield Vineyards, Marlborough (yet another yuppie vineyard producing average grapes in a glut)
* Hotel So, Christchurch (brought to you by the legendary Dave Henderson)
* Oakridge Resort, Wanaka

Investing in a bar is very high risk, and I really resent more money being spent on rescuing the money of people who were foolish enough to invest in bars than is spent on the police or ACC - both of whom have received significant sums of money from me lately.

[HenryDorsetCase]

It seems they liked bars and hotels - some of their bad debts:

* Lenin Bar, Princes Wharf
* Dakota Bar, wharf
* Minus 5, wharf
* O'Carrolls Irish Bar, Vulcan Lane
* Hyatt Hotel, Auckland
* Leefield Vineyards, Marlborough (yet another yuppie vineyard producing average grapes in a glut)
* Hotel So, Christchurch (brought to you by the legendary Dave Henderson)
* Oakridge Resort, Wanaka

Investing in a bar is very high risk, and I really resent more money being spent on rescuing the money of people who were foolish enough to invest in bars than is spent on the police or ACC - both of whom have received significant sums of money from me lately.

I agree with you I think: Ive had some involvement peripherally with Oakridge (I assisted with some due diligence for a client looking at buying some units there at wait for it: mortgagee sale). And I know more than I care to about some of those others you've listed also.

my biggest concern is the debt loading of the primary production centres, and the use of resources we all own (water, mainly) for private profit. socialising the losses and privatising the profits.

Big picture though: once the gubblemunt said "We guarantee" then when it went tits up as it appears (now with hindsight) that it inevitably would, then the gubblemunt had to pay. Which they did using your and my money. But, the $1.7 sticker price is not total loss.

Meh, I've hot heaps of money, if J Kizzle needs some more from me, all he needs to do is sing out.

[Number One]

Meh, I've hot heaps of money, if J Kizzle needs some more from me, all he needs to do is sing out.

Brown girl in the ring...fa la la la...there's a brown girl in the ring...fa lalalalllaaaaaaaaaaaa
That enough singing? I can do other songs too! Contemporary, rap, blues you hummm it I'll sing it