MAG-NZ opposes the Motorcycle Safety Levy

[caseye]

No disrespect meant in my post.

I believe MAG will be selling their members short by not being included in the future shape and direction of the MSL. A reality is it (MSL) will go ahead, there is no way it will be rolled back. How can MAG will influence or contribute from the 'outside'? You will be seen as 'just another minority'.

There is strength in unity; not just with what we are all trying to achieve but also in the message fed back to our community, which is evident in some of the misunderstanding and miscommunication I have seen, even in this thread.

MAG comment on addressing; 'lowering motorcycle accidents by highlighting roads for improvement, and encouraging the provision and participation in rider training courses, for both learner and experienced motorcyclists, and reducing the severity of remaining accidents by promoting the use motorcycle friendly road furniture'. What MAG is not addressing is rider psychology and attitudes towards safety - this is not covered off in rider training, and is a message that needs to be continually addressed.

My five cents..

Well said and noted,Flippant commetn coming, see Katman for support re physc analysis, he's been right all the time.
Good post.

[Squiggles]

I use the or ones. Maybe you can answer the question stoney ignored, will bronz support (by encouraging it members to turn up) MAG anti-levy-increase rides or rallys?

I believe the Auckland branch made a motion to that effect in November, supporting any protest that wasn't intentionally disruptive etc etc (I dont remember the exact wording)


Would Mag-NZ be "happy" if the levy's were the same as for other private passenger vehicles, but $30 of that amount was ringfenced for Motorcycle safety? Is that discriminatory?

[caseye]

I think that any support from one organisation to another is a good thing.
I believe that both organisations )and of course the other MSL members) will need some time to come to understand and be comfortable with each others positions. I'd like instantaneous and unqualified support for MAG-NZ from all other organisations but I'm old enough to know that that will only come with dialogue and mutual respect.
Lets not forget that this discusision is being hosted by another organisation that has in the past supported BRONZ and now helps MAG-NZ as well, they see the wisdom in allowing both groups access here and i'm sure they hope that over time a concensus Not a shit fight will develop.

[bogan]

I believe the Auckland branch made a motion to that effect in November, supporting any protest that wasn't intentionally disruptive etc etc (I dont remember the exact wording)


Would Mag-NZ be "happy" if the levy's were the same as for other private passenger vehicles, but $30 of that amount was ringfenced for Motorcycle safety? Is that discriminatory?

thanks for that, as admenk said, it'd enable bikers to combat the issue from strong positions at both ends. and yeh, it's not the money being ringfenced, it's the higher levy that we object to, so pretty sure MAG would have no objection there.

[Mom]

One thing that that Nick Smith would love, is for us all to start slagging each other off over which is the best approach.

Well I am quite certain I speak on behalf of the management committee of MAG-NZ in saying that we will not be slagging anyone off for what they do and their efforts on behalf of motorcyclists. We just reserve the right to stand firm on our principles and speak up when we feel things are not right.

[Lucyloo]

the reps from the motorcycle community will be approving or declining the porposals that are placed before the advisory council (still being formed at ACC's cost not ours)

Do I have a say in who represents me?

[MSTRS:Me]

the reps from the motorcycle community will be approving or declining the porposals that are placed before the advisory council (still being formed at ACC's cost not ours)

Do I have a say in who represents me?

No.
But you can join the organisation that most closely resembles your particular needs, and perhaps influence how they go about representing your views.

[bogan]

No.
But you can join the organisation that most closely resembles your particular needs, and perhaps influence how they go about representing your views.

and those who resent being forced to pay for it in the first place, can join mag eh cmon, you know ya want to yes, you, we need you!

[Katman]

The MSL is tied in with the rego increase, we feel we cannot support one while trying to get the other overturned. And MAG-NZ has big plans to continue to fight the levy increases!

Whooaa! Let's back the bus up a little.

The ACC levy increase was directly attributable to the 'out of proportion' cost that motorcyclists cost this country.

A lot of you bang on about the Woodhouse principle. Quite frankly I don't give a fat rat's arse about the Woodhouse principle.

When we can show irrefutable proof that we are starting to seriously address the issue of us having accidents then maybe then we will have sound reasoning to be aggrieved by the increase.

In the meantime the MSL is something that motorcyclists need to be involved in. MAG-NZ ignore it at their peril.

[bogan]

Whooaa! Lets back the bus up a little.

The ACC levy increase was directly attributable to the 'out of proportion' cost that motorcyclists cost this country.

A lot of you bang on about the Woodhouse principle. Quite frankly I don't give a fat rat's arse about the Woodhouse principle.

When we can show irrefutable proof that we are starting to seriously address the issue of us having accidents then maybe then we will have sound reasoning to be aggrieved by the increase.

In the meantime the MSL is something that motorcyclists need to be involved in. MAG-NZ ignore it at their peril.

We've done the arguments for/against the levy hike to death in other threads, the majority are against them. The MSL is part of that hike.

MAG-NZ does not ignore the safety issue, we simply plan to deal with it without using these 'tainted' (in our opinion) funds.

[MSTRS:Me]

MAG-NZ does not ignore the safety issue, we simply plan to deal with it without using these 'tainted' (in our opinion) funds.

It's not rocket science, eh?

Nothing against the various organisations on the MSL committee. Problem is, it's people at the coalface. And those people may (or may not) have personal agendas in what/why they are on that committee. It's a matter of trust, you see. And so far, despite some of the posts in here, I've only heard stuff that puts me off trusting...

[Katman]

It's a matter of trust, you see. And so far, despite some of the posts in here, I've only heard stuff that puts me off trusting...

It's also a matter of acceptance.

Motorcyclists need to accept that we are crashing far too often and costing the country far more than our numbers can justify.

Then it's a matter of whether we accept the increase.

The way I see it, we have no right to not accept it until we pull our heads out of our arses and start addressing why we are crashing so often.

Please don't let MAG-NZ become just another motorcycling organisation who refuses to accept the cold hard truth.

[Mom]

Please don't let MAG-NZ become just another motorcycling organisation who refuses to accept the cold hard truth.

The cold hard truth is there are far too many bikers killing themselves on our roads. I doubt you will find anyone that disputes that horrible fact.

Far too many newly returned riders ( I dont like "born again" when used to describe a biker,once a biker always a biker) are over estimating their skills, and underestimating all the other crap that a healthy, well honed, experienced, educated spidey sense tells you to watch out for. Then there is the added spice of hormones, and they can not be ruled out either.

Some dont make it easy for you and me in lots of ways, BUT...

You can not hold the majority to blame for the minority weaknesses and stupidity.

[bogan]

Please don't let MAG-NZ become just another motorcycling organisation who refuses to accept the cold hard truth.

The cold hard truth is a different issue from the levies, an increase in levies does nothing to curb the accident rate (bar removing some bikes from the road), furthermore ACC was not set up to allocate treatment costs to user classes. As stated earlier, we most certainly do have plans to deal with some aspects of the cold hard truth.

[Katman]

The cold hard truth is a different issue from the levies

No, the 'cold hard truth' and the increase in levies are inseparable.

Sort out the 'cold hard truth' and both BRONZ and MAG-NZ would suddenly be scratching their arses trying to find issues that need rectifying.