Does drug prohibition put the police in danger and harm the public?

[Hinny]

I wonder what HE was on??

Maybe he just did not have ADHD.

[Banditbandit]

I know of one man who started smoking at 15, was doing well at school, happy, outgoing, he is now 43, smoked everyday, never worked, nothing wrong with him bar his addiction to pot yet he has been on sickness beneift for over 20 years. He suffers from depression, drinks like a fish and has fathered 5 children to 5 different mothers. A real assest to society. Not blaming all this on pot but hey, he smokes at least ten joints a day. He only motivation in life is to grow more pot to sell and smoke. Awesome! Society needs more just like him!

The man's an addict - and I know a few like that who only use the legal drug alcohol - haven't smoke a joint in their lives ...

We don't ban alcohol because of a few people who use up oxygen for no good purpose ... why ban mary jane for the same reasons ? It's a people problem, not a drug problem ...

[scumdog]

The man's an addict - and I know a few like that who only use the legal drug alcohol - haven't smoke a joint in their lives ...

We don't ban alcohol because of a few people who use up oxygen for no good purpose ... why ban mary jane for the same reasons ? It's a people problem, not a drug problem ...

Wow, I'll give you an equally logical scenario...because of a 'people problem' the virtually banned AK47s too...and they did so based on the actions of ONE man..

Now THAT is really unjust eh!

[Banditbandit]

Wow, I'll give you an equally logical scenario...because of a 'people problem' the virtually banned AK47s too...and they did so based on the actions of ONE man..

Now THAT is really unjust eh!

Yeah ... I loved my AK47 ... (just kidding, only ever played with a mate's ... it was hell on Goats ...)

But I'm sorry ... I was living in Napier when Jan Molenaar did his thing ... banning military style automatics did not stop him and a lot of other crazies over the years ...

Banning Mary Jane, Cocaine, Heroin, LSD, Ectsasy, etc etc has created a bigger problem than the one it was supposed to solve .. just as banning alcohol in the USA did the same thing ...

[scumdog]

Banning Mary Jane, Cocaine, Heroin, LSD, Ectsasy, etc etc has created a bigger problem than the one it was supposed to solve .. just as banning alcohol in the USA did the same thing ...

I notice you haven't mentioned 'P' in your list, d'ya reckon if it was legalised we would have less problems with it??

[Drunken Monkey]

I notice you haven't mentioned 'P' in your list, d'ya reckon if it was legalised we would have less problems with it??

I would expect, given 'people problem' being true, that all it would do is move the problem (or at least where the problem people show up). In saying that, I don't think coming down harder on suppliers and users is going to have any net beneficial effect to our lives either.

So in regards to this scenario, the real question is something along the lines of "Should society lock up drug pushers and users in some form of institution, or should we find a different way to deal with them?".

I think the general consensus is 'locking them up' takes them off the street where they may otherwise interfere with your life in some anti-social way. Presently this is how many societies around the world try to deal with the 'drugs problem'. I'm not entirely convinced the argument is sound, nor that it is effective in all cases. I'm also not convinced that throwing more money at putting more people away (via increased targetted policing and more institutionalisation) is going to change anything. Given all this, if the 'answer' was easy, then I'm sure we'd have figured it out by now.

Given the wide range of personalities people have, there's never going to be a magic bullet solution. The pendulum will always swing between balancing having personal freedoms and living in a police state. Most ordinary people prefer the former, until they are wronged by another, then cry out for the latter. Good governance of a population as a whole should, IMHO, filter out the noise makers. Currently, the opposite is the case, and squeaky wheels get the most attention.

[Banditbandit]

I notice you haven't mentioned 'P' in your list, d'ya reckon if it was legalised we would have less problems with it??

Yes. No. I'm not sure about P ... The generalized stance, which is pretty close to my own, that drugs should be up to the individual and not a matter for the state to interfere in ... doesn't take into account the social harm around the use of some drugs - such as P. This is complicated by the fact of the social harm of currently legal drugs such as alcohol ... there is no easy quick answer ...

I'm still inclined to think that drugs should not be the provence of any government to interfere in people's lives ...

The use and misuse of drugs is a social problem and needs social solutions - that is NOT to say that fixing the social problems means we will not have addicts in the future ... that's a health problem ... but criminalizng users is not the answer to a social problem ... (making suicide illegal doesn't stop people trying and/or succeeding and telling a suicidal person that it is illegal won;t change their mind.) ...we can see where prohibition leads .. in the extreme examples of the US prohibition period and the crime lords ... and in New ZEaland the sale of drugs funds the criminal gangs ...

For something like marijuana, legalizing growth and possession up to an amount for personal use, but keeping the sale or supply illegal, would remove that particular drug from prohibtion - people could grow, dry and smoke their own and would not need to buy from the Mob or other gangs ... cuts off a large part of their funding and recruitment either to the gang or to other drugs ...

And the crime "associated" with drugs such as burglary, is about people trying to raise money to buy drugs from gangs .. if there was a legal way to grow or make drugs, that crime would largely disappear ... as it did in the US when prohibition was lifted ...

LSD, Heroin, Ecstacy, Opium could all be treated the same way ... none of these are harmful in themselves ... (people die from herion OVERDOSE or the crap used to cut it ... heroin in itself will not kill people) Yes, we do not want people flying aeroplanes, working as dentists, surgeons ... high on those - but we stop them flying or operating on alcohol already ... these are no different.


P is very very different ... and I'm not sure what the answer is .. I'm just bloody glad I've never used that one myself ...