New tax bill introduced

[mashman]

So there's a new tax bill... and they tell us to save our money to invest locally... WTF!!! isn't this encouraging people to invest offshore??? Aye, TPTB know what they're doing alrighty ... Less tax for the govt usually means less services.

Did i read it wrongly? Is there anything positive about this?

[MisterD]

Did i read it wrongly? Is there anything positive about this?

Yeah. It is supposed to encourage companies with overseas interests to remain based in NZ rather than re-locating to Australia which already has this.

[mashman]

Yeah. It is supposed to encourage companies with overseas interests to remain based in NZ rather than re-locating to Australia which already has this.

Why would the businesses already here, suddenly decide to leave? They're already making money aren't they? NZ will receive less tax revenue because business/corporations get a tax break? How will the tax losses be recouped? Does it make the cost of living in NZ any cheaper? Will more services have to be cut? What's the upside for joe bloggs?

I can't see a single upside for the man on the street. Can you/anyone? I'm genuinely curious...

[Mully]

Why would the businesses already here, suddenly decide to leave? They're already making money aren't they?

Most businesses are constantly evaluating these things. "Making money" isn't the same as "Maximising value/earnings for the shareholders". If a company can make more by off-shoring (Chinese made stuff, anyone), then most of them will.

I work with a massive Global company which has just completely rejigged their NZ division in order to "Maximise value"

In theory, companies staying here have jobs here - companies pissing off to Aussie will employ Aussies (or ex-pat Kiwis).

[mashman]

Most businesses are constantly evaluating these things. "Making money" isn't the same as "Maximising value/earnings for the shareholders". If a company can make more by off-shoring (Chinese made stuff, anyone), then most of them will.

I work with a massive Global company which has just completely rejigged their NZ division in order to "Maximise value"

In theory, companies staying here have jobs here - companies pissing off to Aussie will employ Aussies (or ex-pat Kiwis).

How is "Maximising value/earnings for the shareholders" not the same as making money? Same clothes, different handbag... You go offshore to fill gaps in markets (as does the massive global company i work for) or you move your local services offshore to cut costs. But it's not the same as making money hmmmm... Abba said it (sang it) best

When companies piss off, there's a hole in the market that needs to be filled. Hopefully by someone local. I'd prefer that option. At least then some of the taxes and most of the revenue stays in the country... Why would a company go to Oz if it's making a profit in NZ? Just because they're paying what they consider to be too much tax? I'm not making enough profit, I best go somewhere else... who gives a shit about the workforce? Bit fuckin childish? ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE ALREADY MAKING A PROFIT

[Mully]

How is "Maximising value/earnings for the shareholders" not the same as making money?

I'm not making enough profit, I best go somewhere else... who gives a shit about the workforce?

Umm, yeah. That.

For example, Company A is making $1 million per year after tax in NZ. Moving 75% of their business (factories, call centres, help desks, etc) off shore will mean they make $2 million per year.

Most companies are only altruistic when it suits them. And foregoing $1 million/year "for the good of the workforce" is likely to get the management's arses kicked.

[mashman]

Umm, yeah. That.

For example, Company A is making $1 million per year after tax in NZ. Moving 75% of their business (factories, call centres, help desks, etc) off shore will mean they make $2 million per year.

Most companies are only altruistic when it suits them. And foregoing $1 million/year "for the good of the workforce" is likely to get the management's arses kicked.

So the govt offers businesses a sweetener at the expense of the tax payer... that's awefully nice of them ... so there is no upside for the "public" then? just more ass dipped cock to swallow...

[Mully]

So the govt offers businesses a sweetener at the expense of the tax payer... that's awefully nice of them ... so there is no upside for the "public" then? just more ass dipped cock to swallow...

And jobs.

10 characters

[Suntoucher]

And jobs.

10 characters

And NZ resources used. Which benefits other local businesses, which provides other jobs etc.

Pretty much why Growth in China is so massive. Money for business means money for people.

[cowpoos]

So there's a new tax bill... and they tell us to save our money to invest locally... WTF!!! isn't this encouraging people to invest offshore??? Aye, TPTB know what they're doing alrighty ... Less tax for the govt usually means less services.

Did i read it wrongly? Is there anything positive about this?

That was not very well represented by the journo involded..that story does not in anyway discrib the bigger picture involded with that Bill..you need to do some more research....

[mashman]

That was not very well represented by the journo involded..that story does not in anyway discrib the bigger picture involded with that Bill..you need to do some more research....

In all honesty, even if i could find it (which i can't, yes yes i suck at internet searching)), i doubt i'd read it, let alone understand it (it's probably about 200 pages long). So from my uneducated viewpoint (make of it what you will) off the back of some shoddy journalism, it seems obvious to me that NZ'ers are being royally fucked by their own govt... because NZ business and NZ employees will be making free money for their offshore employers ...

Sure we'll have more jobs (if anyone bothers with NZ in the first place), there may even be the knock on effects of resource sharing (most likely from another company that's not paying tax, because they'll be able to supply it cheaper ), but the profits/money "earned" will be NZ money, yours and mine, earned in NZ, but it will then be sucked out of the NZ economy, never to return and not even nibbled at, any more, by the govt. And that off the back of the call to save and invest locally ... how the hell will that affect the economy? that isn't even slightly hypocritical? I've seen some of the rates i've been charged out at, I know how much I have earned, I know companies have made 2/3 more than they have paid me (that's a fuck load of money NZ tax payers are "covering"). Oh but companies will leave blah blah blah... what, they use their own money and don't make any profit in NZ, why did they come here in the first place? why have they stayed?... Sounds like a false economy to me. I wonder how much this will cost NZ.

[oldrider]

Times like this is when left and right wing politics are little but mirror images of each other!

The labour laws regarding the difference between contractor or employee have been too vague for too long and Helen (Hitler) Clark's mob made even worse!

It needs to be clarified for "all" NZ service providers/workers, not just the bloody film industry!

[mashman]

Times like this is when left and right wing politics are little but mirror images of each other!

The labour laws regarding the difference between contractor or employee have been too vague for too long and Helen (Hitler) Clark's mob made even worse!

It needs to be clarified for "all" NZ service providers/workers, not just the bloody film industry!

You that they both do as they're told?

the distinction should be as simple as this: if the company for which you are providing "services" pays your tax, your PAYE, then you're an employee... if you pay your own, you're a contractor. Where's the difficulty in that? Fuckin idiots wasting HUGE amounts of time trying to distinguish the 2 when there's a simple solution staring them in the face. Terms and conditions are contractual (individual or collective) and have nothing to do with the definition.

Not so simple? Why not? Job done, pun intended, next please