Thursday's Dominion Rd crash killing a biker

[That looks like fun]

Just to throw a curve ball in here I don't think its anything to do with Vision I believe its an Attitude problem.
I have people regularly pull out in front of me on my bike But then they also do it to me when I am in the Truck So you can scrap the "Might is right" rule (you don't get much bigger than 22 mtrs of steel and shit weighing 44 tonne)
What I put it down to is that people approach driving with a mindset to GO!!
So, Mr car driver sits on the side of the road looking to pull out, he doesn't see the motorcyclist, why? Because he was not looking for a motorcycle, he was looking for a "Gap"
Why pull out in front of a truck then? Because Mr Driver don't want to get stuck behind that truck!!
There probably is more the rider could have done to increase his safety. Sadly he didn't, and now he cant
The big difference for me between driving the Truck or Riding the bike? If it goes wrong in the truck, many die, on the bike, I die Neither is a good outcome.
Its no use jumping out of your car and running round like a headless chook crying after you have just killed someone
Driving is about thinking, not just doing.

[MSTRS:Me]

Driving is about thinking, not just doing.

Teach that to the masses, and you'll have solved a major headache...

Rick Barker is the Rocket 3 rider...

[Swoop]

Driving is about thinking, not just doing.

Well, that fucks up 90% of kiwi drivers.
There should be a lot of licences being handed back in...

[avgas]

Perhaps to make the general public more aware of motorcyclist we should change our license laws.

15 your can sit your 6L
You need to be 18 to begin your car license or have completed your full class 6.

Radical I know.

I just think back to when I first started driving, I saw bikes but was not totally aware of them. Now I ride daily, when I do drive I spot bikes miles away.

Not extreme enough.
6L until your 21.
Last thing NZ needs is a bunch of 17 y/o squids on R1's (legally).

[shrub]

Not extreme enough.
6L until your 21.
Last thing NZ needs is a bunch of 17 y/o squids on R1's (legally).

Depends on the rider. My son bought his Street triple just after he turned 18, but he had done a shitload of riding on his VT250 including track days and rider training so he was pretty competent on it and has now ridden over 30,000 ks on it.

[That looks like fun]

[QUOTE=MSTRS;1129930833]Teach that to the masses, and you'll have solved a major headache...

I hear ya
However I also have a belief that just because something is difficult means you don't try Imagine if Ed Hillary had looked at Mt Everest and said "Bugger that for a joke"
As a boy (yesterday ) I lost my license 4 times before my brain developed enough to realize I wasn't going to win . If I can change and grow up it gives me hope for the rest of the world
There are ways to alter attitude (monetary incentives is a bloody easy one) but instead we focus on behaviors. The learned ones will tell you that if you change the behaviour the attitude will follow. Thats why they live on there own special planet

[DMNTD:Me]

Depends on the rider. My son bought his Street triple just after he turned 18, but he had done a shitload of riding on his VT250 including track days and rider training so he was pretty competent on it and has now ridden over 30,000 ks on it.

Yep,depends on the parents/mentors too.

[shrub]

Yep,depends on the parents/mentors too.

That's true. He had ATTGATT and riding skills drummed into him from the day he took possession of his first bike (a classic Yamaha step through).

[avgas]

Yep,depends on the parents/mentors too.

As far as I am concerned it doesn't.
Society is too dumb to know what works and what doesn't. And unfortunately parents / mentors are too rose tinted to believe their protege' is next on the death list.

If you nailed down all the problems in modern society - its basically where someone external was not checking things, because "the local" thought it was ok.

Motorcycle license is a piece of piss to achieve. Proving to you parent's/mates that you are a capable rider is even easier. But fact of the matter is it doesn't count for shit when you become overwhelmed.
Big bikes seem to do this easily.

So I am in too minds - a) restrict the hell out of riding and save the youngin's......or b) let them do what the want - and bet their life on whether they are cable enough or not.
b) seems like the easier/more pleasant one until one day that bet is paid in full.
hence why I now prefer it was taken out of my hands with option a)

[DMNTD:Me]

As far as I am concerned it doesn't.
Society is too dumb to know what works and what doesn't. And unfortunately parents / mentors are too rose tinted to believe their protege' is next on the death list.

If you nailed down all the problems in modern society - its basically where someone external was not checking things, because "the local" thought it was ok.

Motorcycle license is a piece of piss to achieve. Proving to you parent's/mates that you are a capable rider is even easier. But fact of the matter is it doesn't count for shit when you become overwhelmed.
Big bikes seem to do this easily.

So I am in too minds - a) restrict the hell out of riding and save the youngin's......or b) let them do what the want - and bet their life on whether they are cable enough or not.
b) seems like the easier/more pleasant one until one day that bet is paid in full.
hence why I now prefer it was taken out of my hands with option a)

I believe we may be thinking closer than you think...maybe
What I was trying to say is that with the right mentor/parent being involved, then the n00bie will have a far better fighting chance out in the big bad world of motorcycling.
100% agreed that the licenses are worth SFA these days

[fuknKIWI]

Okay, lets try this. Convince an MP to start riding a bike. Inevitably, they will care more if their own skin is on the line.

Phil Goff used to ride a Norton commando, & was seen at a BEARS club day

[BoristheBiter]

I believe we may be thinking closer than you think...maybe
What I was trying to say is that with the right mentor/parent being involved, then the n00bie will have a far better fighting chance out in the big bad world of motorcycling.
100% agreed that the licenses are worth SFA these days

It was worth SFA back when i got mine as well.
It has always been far to easy to get a licence, and just as easy to get back if its taken away.

I was lucky that i had 20 years driving and 10 years off road riding before i got my full bike licence so all that stupidness had gone (well most) and the fact i had learnt that a lot of people drive like dicks has made me more aware of whats going on around me.

[Spearfish]

All good for new riders, but what about the now riders?

Especially as the new ones will have to overcome the peer pressure of the "rebel with an agenda" riders that are out there now.

[swbarnett]

I had someone at work today comment that there were reports of the bike doing "in excess of 160km/h" before the crash. From the damage and the fact that the pillion is still alive I find this extremely hard to believe. Can anyone with way more information to me, preferably an actual witness, say of this is even credible?

[danchop]

on that small stretch from valley road lights up to where the impact was,its entirely possible for a 1000cc bike to reach 160km/h,but youd probably hit a car