Stabbed policeman left to die

[mashman]

Not to split hairs but that is two different incidents you have there.

Very true, my apologies . I seem to have mixed and mis-matched.

[Scuba_Steve]

And look at that people a cop that agrees with me

"Arming police would not make job any safer"

(Worth reading the article but here's a couple of extracts)

Mr Singer said the lot of a sole- charge police officer meant they could face dangerous situations alone, but arming them would not make the job any safer

People should be aware that if police start carrying firearms the relationship between them and officers would change, he said.

"There won't be any walking up to a police officer and talking or remonstrating with them face to face. You won't be able to do that if the cop's got a gun on.

"He'll have you backed off six or seven metres away ... You won't allow people to get that close if you're armed."

And so along with neither cops nor public being any safer (& most likely less safe), the respect for cops would be even less than now, as you would no longer be able to approach a cop for help or guidance. CQC is still the safest & most effective route to take.

[oldrider]

And look at that people a cop that agrees with me

"Arming police would not make job any safer"

(Worth reading the article but here's a couple of extracts)



And so along with neither cops nor public being any safer (& most likely less safe), the respect for cops would be even less than now, as you would no longer be able to approach a cop for help or guidance. CQC is still the safest & most effective route to take.

I just read the article and find this quote contradictory: Ad Feedback

Mr Singer has never had to use a firearm in a tense situation as a police officer, though he did wear one each day on a six-month stint in Timor Leste in 2008.

But he has taken a Glock pistol or Bushranger rifle on a job. "I've been lucky. I've had a few knocks but I've never had to curl up in a ball because I'm getting a hiding [as Mr Mellor did]".

People should be aware that if police start carrying firearms the relationship between them and officers would change, he said.

Is constable Stringer blond or something, the relationship between police and the public has got to change, for obvious reasons!

[jasonu]

Martial Law is a bit of a dramatic comparison isn't it? you're from the US (j/k)

Arming and Training a Police Force, no disrespect intended to anyone, takes time and money that, NZ doesn't have. No time, because with the Police training all of the time, there'd be none on the streets. Unless you'd be happy with, here, have a gun, try not to shoot yourself, go catch bad guys. Crime doesn't stop for training.

IF there had been a Soldier covering the fallen officer at the time? you reckon this incindent woulda turned out any better? would it have happened at all? From behind, with a Machete? disgusting!

A Soldier Ride Along, instead of a camera man hopin to get some good Telly, Ride Along... heh, i reckon some Soldiers would happily volunteer for the duty. They could even skills share and cross-train . Rinse and repeat and eventually the Soldiers will faze out, or until there's a massive shift in thinking , and hopefully there will have been some useful skills shared too. We're always learning .

For NZ... The Soldier would be there to Guard the Police person. We could have them in cars pretty ?quickly? and for a fraction of the cost of arming and training the Police. Don't shoot unless the Police person orders it. Return Fire if either of you is in the poo. Anything that blurs the lines, figure it out quickly they may have a rocket launcher (movie drama )... A much better approach for NZ i woulda thought? Criminals would be quickly aware of this

?quickly? = why can't you just turn up to a barracks, get on a range, find the best marksmen of the day, offer them the gig and have them start a week on friday? You are the government after all. And it is pretty much FREE to do and those Police that need cover, get it now instead of when the legislation is ready .

(providing their are volunteers too, and that the public would be happy about it )

Martial Law he says...

Molenaar: cops smelled grass. Found a pissed off guy that opened fire. Killed a cop and a dog, wounded another 2 cops and a civilian. Killed himself when he realised he was screwed. Protecting some of his living.

No mate, I am a Kiwi, been living in the US for 12 years. When I mentioned martial law, I was saying that is what having the army doing the policeing is, not to actually turn to martial law. It seems the government (10 years of Aunty Helen and a bunch of PC fuckwits) have ruined the police force, not enough time to train properly and not enough new recruits so as not to put officers in the position of being alone like in this case. If you watch cop reality shows from here and the UK you will notice in car video and audio survailence, that is what I was referring to, not actual camera people filming for telly. While not as good as an actual partner, the video has been proven to be a deterrant to incidences such as this one as the potential wrong dooer knows he is being filmed and this film is used as evidence.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a soldier with a machine gun ready to deal to little cunts like these two, I really think the govt needs to fix the police force rather than go for a 'quick fix' or cheap(er) solution.

[mashman]

No mate, I am a Kiwi, been living in the US for 12 years. When I mentioned martial law, I was saying that is what having the army doing the policeing is, not to actually turn to martial law. It seems the government (10 years of Aunty Helen and a bunch of PC fuckwits) have ruined the police force, not enough time to train properly and not enough new recruits so as not to put officers in the position of being alone like in this case. If you watch cop reality shows from here and the UK you will notice in car video and audio survailence, that is what I was referring to, not actual camera people filming for telly. While not as good as an actual partner, the video has been proven to be a deterrant to incidences such as this one as the potential wrong dooer knows he is being filmed and this film is used as evidence.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a soldier with a machine gun ready to deal to little cunts like these two, I really think the govt needs to fix the police force rather than go for a 'quick fix' or cheap(er) solution.

I've only been here 4 years , English ... Shame it takes time, money and potentially lives to get a trained force (although i'd still rather they not arm the police directly)... Damned if ya do eh... Me thinks we expect too much of our governments

[scissorhands]

Me thinks we expect too much of our governments

I expect little and get nothing in return.

They have the power to stop people attacking each other? They have the power to reduce the likelihood, to lower the odds, put acid in the water supply

[BoristheBiter]

I've only been here 4 years , English ... Shame it takes time, money and potentially lives to get a trained force (although i'd still rather they not arm the police directly)... Damned if ya do eh... Me thinks we expect too much of our governments

When i was in France in 97 there was a problem with some nutty terrorists so they put two soldiers with one cop even though he was armed.
We found out later the guy with the machine gun had a couple of rounds ready and his mate had the rest of the ammo so he could fire a few rounds off but if he had it taken away from him it was basically unloaded and other than using it as a bat it was basically useless.

[Ocean1]

the guy with the machine gun had a couple of rounds ready and his mate had the rest of the ammo so he could fire a few rounds off but if he had it taken away from him it was basically unloaded and other than using it as a bat it was basically useless.

Is a good strategy. I've wondered before why there seems little work in developing personnel-specific systems. With a comparitively modest budget I reckon I could produce an assault rifle that would work only in the hands of the guy it was issued to.

Add com’s to enable it to be turned off remotely.

[oldrider]

Is a good strategy. Add com’s to enable it to be turned off remotely.

Can you make a device like that that fits the average politician's mouth?

[mashman]

When i was in France in 97 there was a problem with some nutty terrorists so they put two soldiers with one cop even though he was armed.
We found out later the guy with the machine gun had a couple of rounds ready and his mate had the rest of the ammo so he could fire a few rounds off but if he had it taken away from him it was basically unloaded and other than using it as a bat it was basically useless.

heh, great idea I'd still rather the Police weren't armed at all though

[BoristheBiter]

heh, great idea I'd still rather the Police weren't armed at all though

We were talking with some old family friends last night and there son is RUC and in all his time there, i think a good 20 years, is yet to pull his gun.
I also know cops here that have never been assaulted and know ones that seem to get it every week.
We have to get over the fact that this isn't the NZ we grew up with, well some of us, and realize that measures have to be taken to insure it will still be there for our children.

[Ocean1]

We have to get over the fact that this isn't the NZ we grew up with, well some of us, and realize that measures have to be taken to insure it will still be there for our children.

Forced emigration.

We'll need an island.

Nothing fancy....

[ynot slow]

Forced emigration.

We'll need an island.

Nothing fancy....

West Island ala Australia,they have experience with crims from couple of centuries ago.

[Flip]

Martial Law is a bit of a dramatic comparison isn't it? you're from the US (j/k)

Arming and Training a Police Force, no disrespect intended to anyone, takes time and money that, NZ doesn't have. No time, because with the Police training all of the time, there'd be none on the streets. Unless you'd be happy with, here, have a gun, try not to shoot yourself, go catch bad guys. Crime doesn't stop for training.

IF there had been a Soldier covering the fallen officer at the time? you reckon this incindent woulda turned out any better? would it have happened at all? From behind, with a Machete? disgusting!

A Soldier Ride Along, instead of a camera man hopin to get some good Telly, Ride Along... heh, i reckon some Soldiers would happily volunteer for the duty. They could even skills share and cross-train . Rinse and repeat and eventually the Soldiers will faze out, or until there's a massive shift in thinking , and hopefully there will have been some useful skills shared too. We're always learning .

For NZ... The Soldier would be there to Guard the Police person. We could have them in cars pretty ?quickly? and for a fraction of the cost of arming and training the Police. Don't shoot unless the Police person orders it. Return Fire if either of you is in the poo. Anything that blurs the lines, figure it out quickly they may have a rocket launcher (movie drama )... A much better approach for NZ i woulda thought? Criminals would be quickly aware of this

?quickly? = why can't you just turn up to a barracks, get on a range, find the best marksmen of the day, offer them the gig and have them start a week on friday? You are the government after all. And it is pretty much FREE to do and those Police that need cover, get it now instead of when the legislation is ready .

(providing their are volunteers too, and that the public would be happy about it )

Martial Law he says...

Molenaar: cops smelled grass. Found a pissed off guy that opened fire. Killed a cop and a dog, wounded another 2 cops and a civilian. Killed himself when he realised he was screwed. Protecting some of his living.

IMHO Solders make terrible Police men, when the shit hits the fan Solders switch to full auto, its what they do, take from me a Solder won't be happy with a POS bushmaster. Solders are trained to kill the enemy.

One the other hand Rozza make fucking terrible Solders, first they seem to think that a vehicle stops a rifle bullet, three eights of an inch of armor plate just stops a (gutless) AK47 round, secondly the Rozza are trained to get prosecutions.

[awayatc]

heh, great idea I'd still rather the Police weren't armed at all though

What about legless then...........?