Stabbed policeman left to die

[Smifffy]

We were talking with some old family friends last night and there son is RUC and in all his time there, i think a good 20 years, is yet to pull his gun.
I also know cops here that have never been assaulted and know ones that seem to get it every week.
We have to get over the fact that this isn't the NZ we grew up with, well some of us, and realize that measures have to be taken to insure it will still be there for our children.

Yup, and IMO we shouldn't fuck around with those that didn't grow up here, if they don't want to play nice with the rest of us, they can fuck off back to where they grew up.

[_Shrek_]

Forced emigration.

We'll need an island.

Nothing fancy....

Rangitoto comes to mind

[mashman]

IMHO Solders make terrible Police men, when the shit hits the fan Solders switch to full auto, its what they do, take from me a Solder won't be happy with a POS bushmaster. Solders are trained to kill the enemy.

One the other hand Rozza make fucking terrible Solders, first they seem to think that a vehicle stops a rifle bullet, three eights of an inch of armor plate just stops a (gutless) AK47 round, secondly the Rozza are trained to get prosecutions.

That's kinda the point though. If the shit is hitting the fan for an Officer, they're generally in the poop, and could do with some form of instant backup and cover in the form of a hail of Soldier directed bullets... I'd expect merry hell to be unleashed to protect the Officer. Dunno if an Officer would ever request such a thing, or whether a Soldier would do the job, or whether it's even a sane option ...

[Ocean1]

That's kinda the point though. If the shit is hitting the fan for an Officer, they're generally in the poop, and could do with some form of instant backup and cover in the form of a hail of Soldier directed bullets... I'd expect merry hell to be unleashed to protect the Officer. Dunno if an Officer would ever request such a thing, or whether a Soldier would do the job, or whether it's even a sane option ...

He's right. A cops role is largely babysitting and peacekeeping. At least the ones not collecting revenue. Military training produces skills which are almost the direct antithesis.

The only way I can see it working is in a situation where you actually needed both set of skills. In other words an armed insurrection. Like the ACC protest one planned for next…

[freedom-wedge]

Bring it on i say,chopping off rapists and kiddie fiddlers dicks would be a good place to start eh.

somthing we can agree on I see, and greater onus on those who try and rehab these fucks, the lines been crossed end of story, no second chances for these dispicable crimes, one can recover from a physical beating with exceptions, but the hurt caused by the violation that you speak of, lasts for ever, they are in affect guilty of murdering innocence.

[mashman]

He's right. A cops role is largely babysitting and peacekeeping. At least the ones not collecting revenue. Military training produces skills which are almost the direct antithesis.

The only way I can see it working is in a situation where you actually needed both set of skills. In other words an armed insurrection. Like the ACC protest one planned for next…

Don't get me wrong, with my limited knowledge of each role, that's kinda what I was expecting, poles apart (to a degree, they're both human)... and I was agreeing with Flip and yourself in that respect. They do do very different jobs that I believe would compliment each other given certain environments... like lone cop etc...

Agreed, you would hope that the Soldier would never need to use his/her skills, but more there as a deterrent or instant backup, just in case a situation arises where the Officer needs protection... "planned for next"

Meh!!! unfortunately, well perhaps fortunately, I don't get to make the rules, but it'd certainly be something that I'd accept, personally, as someone who could end up on the end of the barrel... I've had a tank barrel pointed in my face before, a gun behind me that i'll never see won't worry me too much, but I know it'll be there...

[BoristheBiter]

Don't get me wrong, with my limited knowledge of each role, that's kinda what I was expecting, poles apart (to a degree, they're both human)... and I was agreeing with Flip and yourself in that respect. They do do very different jobs that I believe would compliment each other given certain environments... like lone cop etc...

Agreed, you would hope that the Soldier would never need to use his/her skills, but more there as a deterrent or instant backup, just in case a situation arises where the Officer needs protection... "planned for next"

..

Why do we get insurance? because shit happens so we get protected for any eventuality.

Why should protecting ones self be any different?

[mashman]

Why do we get insurance? because shit happens so we get protected for any eventuality.

Why should protecting ones self be any different?

Sorry, not sure I follow ya there BtB...

[BoristheBiter]

Sorry, not sure I follow ya there BtB...

I see what you mean.

I was meaning that we have insurance (car/bike, house, contents etc) in the event of something going wrong but we hope that nothing ever does but we know at anytime, through no fault of our own, shit can happen.

It is the same for the police, they have a range of tools to protect themselves for when shit happens, and the gun is the end of the list.

I also think they should look at non lethal forms of firearms like rubber bullets and bean bags. yes i know these have been known to kill but like tasers there are only a few. someone looking down the barrel of a shotgun has no idea what it is loaded with.

[mashman]

I see what you mean.

I was meaning that we have insurance (car/bike, house, contents etc) in the event of something going wrong but we hope that nothing ever does but we know at anytime, through no fault of our own, shit can happen.

It is the same for the police, they have a range of tools to protect themselves for when shit happens, and the gun is the end of the list.

I also think they should look at non lethal forms of firearms like rubber bullets and bean bags. yes i know these have been known to kill but like tasers there are only a few. someone looking down the barrel of a shotgun has no idea what it is loaded with.

Gotcha... Police do have a range of tools to protect themselves, but as mentioned elsewhere, having a gun in the car ain't gonna help when the fucktards kick off... Having a gun loaded and ready by the car, with someone who knows and is trained to kill holding it, would be a pretty good insurance policy?

I was wondering about rubber bullets, salt pellets etc... How are they when it comes to vehicle penetration? If someone's shooting from a car, would those "bullets" stop those inside the vehicle? That's the only qualm I have with other "bullets"...

I would prefer to be approached by unarmed officers, personal choice and no doubt different for all. And to a certain extent that's what one of the Officers in one of the links "championed"... it may well make the Police less approachable... it may have the opposite affect... perhaps someday, once the legislation has been written, a couple more cops have paid the price at the hands of fucktards, politicians finally make their minds up etc..., we may find out ...

[jasonu]

[QUOTE=mashman;1129936919]Gotcha... I would prefer to be approached by unarmed officers, personal choice and no doubt different for all.

Yes, but does the officer prefer to approach you, not knowing if you are packing or some sort of a nutjob, without a weapon?

[mashman]

Yes, but does the officer prefer to approach you, not knowing if you are packing or some sort of a nutjob, without a weapon?

Absolutey. The Police currently have that worry and have no form of immediate backup in some cases. I'd like to see it changed for their sake, obviously if they'd want it that is. If they feel they need to be armed and there's no other option, great, arm them... i'll not be happy about it, but i'm only 1 in 4 million

[Edbear]

Absolutey. The Police currently have that worry and have no form of immediate backup in some cases. I'd like to see it changed for their sake, obviously if they'd want it that is. If they feel they need to be armed and there's no other option, great, arm them... i'll not be happy about it, but i'm only 1 in 4 million

That's really the point isn't it? The Police are actually out there doing the job, so logic says ask them what they want. I know there is a general feeling that arming the Police to carry side-arms is not the preferred option, both publicly and within the Police themselves, but they are running out of effective options and reluctantly are being forced to consider carrying arms.

It's not a situation I'd like to be in and I think anyone who wants to criticize the Police should have first-hand experience of what they face every day before voicing their opinions.

[jasonu]

At the moment, little pricks like these two know the worst they are going to get from a cop is a most likely punch in the face. If they knew they ran the risk of being shot if they attacked a cop they would likely think twice before carring out a knife attack in a gun fight.

Also, where are those who have stated many cops are against carrying side arms getting that information from?

[Edbear]

At the moment, little pricks like these two know the worst they are going to get from a cop is a most likely punch in the face. If they knew they ran the risk of being shot if they attacked a cop they would likely think twice before carring out a knife attack in a gun fight.

Also, where are those who have stated many cops are against carrying side arms getting that information from?

From the Police themselves. They are not "against" it as such, but would prefer not to have to. The NZ Police force is admired around the world for its effectiveness and the way it operates in the community and the general arming of the force takes us out of the traditional situation we've enjoyed thus far and into a new era of Policing, more in line with other countries. It's like an end of innocence if you like, where the Police, or more accurately, authority per se, was respected.

It's a reflection of the way our society has "progressed" to catch up to the rest of the world, particularly the US. But not completely the US copycat, NZ society is reaping the "rewards" of a couple of generations of permissiveness and lack of parental control leading to a generation of self-centered people with no regards for authority or the rights of others.