John Key has been unable to turn our economy around

[mashman]

I stand corrected

BTW I think the tax system is in credibly inequitable now and should be evened out
not just the few paying for all

aye, so you should be ... (but i can see why you'd read it that way )

fair enough, but there's absolutely no alternative to that, other than borrowing, whilst the credibly inequitable wage structure exists I guess... damned if ya do etc...

[scott411]

i think these asset sales are not a good idea, but we do need cash

i think Goff's idea of $5000 tax free is a good idea to, we can not afford it tho, maybe cancelling free interest on student loans would be a good idea to fund it,

in basic terms, we are not earning enough, or we are spending to much, same deal,

i have not seen any party come up with an idea on how to solve this problem,

do we slash the hell out of the services, and deal with the extra social problems that it will cause,

or so we put tax up to try and pay for it all, and put the rest of us that have not gone to australia on the next plane out,

hell of a choice really isn't it

[shrub]

I stand corrected

BTW I think the tax system is in credibly inequitable now and should be evened out
not just the few paying for all

It's a basket case, but before we worry about tax we need to cut consumption and increase our national income by exporting more.

Gareth Morgan has a good solution here, but it's waaaaay to radical to ever get past the current crop of softcocks in power. Or the softcocks in opposition (I hold about the same contempt for both National and Labour).

[Gibbo89]

To be honest I would have been a lot happier if he had announced abolishing the doll for long term beneficiaries.

Our beneficiary system is one of the worst in the world, it is so easy with the current system in place to be on the dole and sickness benefit when you are fully able to work and are not sick at all. Yes there are plenty of cases where people should be on the benefit for the sole reason they are unable to work.

But fuckin' eh, the benefit system needs the biggest overhaul.

Someone I know works for WINZ, they set up an interview for someone for a job oppurtunity... typically they didn't turn up. So the worker from WINZ rang up the person that skipped the interview to ask why.

The reason? Because it was raining...

I'd love to say that I made this up and people could not actually be so pathetic, but that's how it went.

If the benefit system was overhauled, then I'm sure there would be some spare shrapnel lying around for a tax cut.

[shrub]

Our beneficiary system is one of the worst in the world, it is so easy with the current system in place to be on the dole and sickness benefit when you are fully able to work and are not sick at all. Yes there are plenty of cases where people should be on the benefit for the sole reason they are unable to work.

But fuckin' eh, the benefit system needs the biggest overhaul.

Someone I know works for WINZ, they set up an interview for someone for a job oppurtunity... typically they didn't turn up. So the worker from WINZ rang up the person that skipped the interview to ask why.

The reason? Because it was raining...

I'd love to say that I made this up and people could not actually be so pathetic, but that's how it went.

If the benefit system was overhauled, then I'm sure there would be some spare shrapnel lying around for a tax cut.

Yeah, can the whole thing ay? There are a hell of a lot of jobs out there, so there is no need to be unemployed, and if you suffer from some long term condition that means you can't work, then tough shit.

One minor problem though, there aren't enough jobs and some people want to work but can't because of their health. How do you suggest we deal with them? And how will the unemployed (for whatever reason) be able to live? Will they just quietly go into a corner and disappear, or starve to death, or start a business, or something? Or will some of them line the sides of the roads with begging bowls? And will some of the others resort to petty crime? Will we suddenly have pickpockets, carjackings and the myriad other crimes in third world countries? And will we experience a massive increase in burglaries?

i think you'll find that the countries with the worst social welfare systems in the world (third world countries) have the most crime, and the ones with the best systems have the safest communities and the greatest average wealth.

[Genestho]

[snip]..the National party spin doctors told us...

Lest we forget....

Pre election fiscal and economic update: 6th October 2008 :http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/forecasts/prefu2008

ECONOMIC AND FISCAL FORECASTS DECEMBER 2008 http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/f...2008/eff08.pdf

[gammaguy]

whoever voted for John Key(instead of a vote for National because he is"charismatic")was deluded

Whoever voted out labour because Helen was "unattractive"was deluded

Whoever votes for the personality instead of the policy is deluded

So now it seems NZ is going to get the government it deserves.

NZ needs some tough decisions to be made,and soon.It cant keep going on with the plug hole in the bath bigger than the tap.

Having said all that,the only difference I can see between the parties is the color of their ties

[scott411]

Having said all that,the only difference I can see between the parties is the color of their ties

100% correct, so are both so centre and vote based now they might as merge, at least that way they always win,

not to sure if the person that got up and said we need big change, but we will have to suffer though it will win enough votes tho, or if they do it will be watered down and be ineffective the the deals done via mmp after the election,

[Brian d marge]

Actually, National inherited 9 years of private debt. In 08 our sovereign debt wasn't too bad, and the main reason we didn't get slaughtered in the GEC was because our books were in comparitively good nick (despite what the National party spin doctors told us - remember being told that ACC was broke?).

However, our current deficit is (from memory) -9% of GDP, which is worse than Ireland's! WHat has saved us is our debt is predominantly private debt - in other words, our deficit is nothing to do with Cullen, and everything to do with you and I buying bikes and flat screen TVs and big, flash houses with money lent to us by (predominantly) Asians. Funny how our TVs and bikes are made by the same people that lent us the money.....

Can you expand on this?
Who , was this private debt borrowed from ( australian banks??_)

Housing, investment properties??

Stephen

[Swoop]

Actually, that was the best investment the Labour government ever made.

Sorry, but the rail system was nothing more than a failing business that had been bled dry then raped for a while. The taxpayer was ripped off in no uncertain terms and will continue to be fucked over by the need to upgrade infrastructure and assets.

Stupidity of cullen, throwing good money after bad: 10/10.
Should of waited for the Aussies to give the thing back and buggered off back across the ditch.

BTW. I agree with rail as a means to transport bulk. Really it needs to be enforced further, to reduce trucks and wear on the roading system. Possibility of that happening?




This thread is an interesting insight to the myopic behaviour of the kiwi.

[shrub]

Can you expand on this?
Who , was this private debt borrowed from ( australian banks??_)

Housing, investment properties??

Stephen

It was predominantly borrowed from overseas investors via Aussie banks and finance companies (some of whom are now dead and buried). The focus on inflation rate control using the RBA resulted in the RB cranking up interest rates whenever inflation reared it's ugly head in the vain hope that this would reduce demand for money. the only outcome was the hot money overseas saw the high interest rates and poured into NZ, thereby driving up the exchange rate which in turn kept prices of imported goods low. The banks were flush with money, so they lent it out as fast as they could (easy loans, no payments until June 2098, 100% mortgages etc), and that in turn drove consumption which kept prices high (especialy property).

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not to worry - after November he won't be Prime Minister any more ...

Bet you a carton of beer he will be!

[SPman]

Bet you a carton of beer he will be!

Yep - never under-estimate the stupidity of Kiwi voters - most of them still beleive everything they read in the Harold and watch on TV1!
So, Key wants to flog of the electricity companies and ANZ -

they deliver nice returns to the government - $700 million last year from the electricity companies alone

much better most of that $700 mill goes to private companies than into government coffers........gives further reasons to introduce Ruth Richardson style slash & burn policies - should be able to drive NZ back to the stone age this time!........

[Bald Eagle]

Just like lots of voters believed that changing to MMP was their choice.

[mashman]

Gareth Morgan has a good solution here, but it's waaaaay to radical to ever get past the current crop of softcocks in power. Or the softcocks in opposition (I hold about the same contempt for both National and Labour).

I like it... I read the detailed version, and not that I understood all of it, but enough to get the gist that it's a balancing of the books in a sensible productivity of the Nation focussed way. Throw in some sensible legislation, not just around GM's CCT et al, and I may even consider voting for such a thing I'd be interested to see what he could do with his numbers in regards to upping the minimum wage, hopefully encouraging people (back) into work... Certainly better than selling half of the country off (yes i know it isn't half of the country hyperbole ) for a relatively short term gain.