Free the weed, dope, cannabis, hooch, Fri 4 Feb, outside Auckland District Courts

[HenryDorsetCase]

I have no objection to seeking the health benefits of anything but my personal view is that I prefer to keep my senses and avoid doing anything that makes my mind less than alert and sober. I drink a bit, but not enough to get drunk or even tipsy and I won't take mind-altering drugs without reason to, such as painkillers, anaesthetics etc. I don't enjoy, or see the point in getting drunk or stoned by whatever means, "for fun" as it's no fun for me to either be that way or watch others make fools of themselves. I have much more fun being sober...

Bear in mind this is my personal opinion and you know what they say about opinions...



Yup! But hopefully we can at least be honest with ourselves...

Sure: my point though is that primates generally seem to have an inclination to get fucked up that is fairly deeply ingrained. Your experiences and inclination differ, fine. I'm not saying make it compulsory. I am saying that prohibition plainly does not work. And I believe the "health benefits" aspect to be a smokescreen (if you'll forgive the pun): the reason people want it is to get high. any other benefit is incidental.

[st00ji]

everyone enjoys themselves in different ways ed. is that really so bad? do you really expect everyone to enjoy their lives in the same way that you do?

to my mind, if alcohol is legal then all drugs should be. people that get messy from whatever substance and cause trouble have plenty of laws to be prosecuted under, and its fairly clear that making a law about it does not stop those that desire more than a few drinks (but not enough to get drunk!) from partaking in their substance of choice.

refer sig

i wont talk about laughable health benefit arguements, but making such substances less than illegal could well have a detrimental effect on the income streams of gangs, to mention one minor point, which are generally considered to be 'bad'. the benefits of law changes dont always have to come back to cost though!

[mashman]

You're missing the point, mate. Smoking, whether tobacco or cannabis, has no benign level. Smoking is automatically bad for the health and no-one can argue that. I've made the point that there are properties in cannabis that can be extracted for health benefits. There may be properties as yet unheard of in tobacco that can be extracted and used in a benign way as well.

To save repeating myself ad infinitum, go back and read my posts as I have addressed alcohol, motorcycling, the legal and societal issues. The key is in the purpose, and people smole cannabis to get high, end of story. I've said if anyone is genuinely serious about any possible health benefits, get off your backsides and do something about it, however, as I pointed out, for most, that's not attractive as that will still leave the smoking of it out of the picture.

Cannabis users just want to be able to smoke it without consequence and it's as simple as that. They are not interested in health, or the effects on others or anything else. It's called rationalising one's own preferences from a selfish viewpoint.

I didn't miss the point at all. Health is not the issue here. Freedom to "smoke" cannabis is... and I can argue it... science just isn't up to the task of proving me wrong yet ... primarily because they figure they don't have to and so "science" will fall back on to it's generalised research in regards to smokers. You can call me blind all you like, but if you do not consider the following factors and their affect on smokers, then it's pot kettle black

What are the effects on smokers in regards to petrol fumes (they removed lead from fuel for a reason), perfumes, alcohol (pfff can and does kill in hours), a predisposition to asthma (by the way, mine ashtma went away when I started smoking cigarettes , and I have found that chewing gum brings it back again ), personal diet, too much sugar, too little, too much fat, too little fat, pesticides ingestion, meat hormones, animal longevity "treatments", water quality, legal pills and on and on and on... but yup, smoking is ultimately bad for you, because there is a singular obvious affect on the lungs when smoking is performed over a period of time... Yet smokers can live into their hundreds . I've seen people close to me die at an early age, from Cancer, and they have never smoked in their lives. How is that possible if smoking kills?

at not interested in health (see above list of other things that kill people).

[Edbear]

Sure: my point though is that primates generally seem to have an inclination to get fucked up that is fairly deeply ingrained. Your experiences and inclination differ, fine. I'm not saying make it compulsory. I am saying that prohibition plainly does not work. And I believe the "health benefits" aspect to be a smokescreen (if you'll forgive the pun): the reason people want it is to get high. any other benefit is incidental.

Can't argue with that, although prohibition on cannabis is much likened to the gun issue. Yes, people will ultimately do what they want to do and no amount of legislation will stop someone smoking if they are determined to do so, but as with the freedom of the gun laws in the US, the ready and free availability means that they become the more common method of assault or murder rather than the exception.

My whole original point was that in order to get the law changed, those who want it changed need to make a reasoned and responsible argument backed up by referenced and legitimate research, not by thumbing their noses at the law and making illegal protests. Personally I don't like or agree with harmful practices of any kind including smoking any substance and would support research into any possible legitimate benefits of anything.

[Edbear]

Back later, gotta go out, taking the Missus out for dinner...

[Scuba_Steve]

everyone enjoys themselves in different ways ed. is that really so bad? do you really expect everyone to enjoy their lives in the same way that you do?

to my mind, if alcohol is legal then all drugs should be. people that get messy from whatever substance and cause trouble have plenty of laws to be prosecuted under, and its fairly clear that making a law about it does not stop those that desire more than a few drinks (but not enough to get drunk!) from partaking in their substance of choice.

see I'd have to disagree there while I reckon we should legalize weed & tax da shit outta it like tobacco & booze. I don't wanna see drugs like 'P', heroin, 'coke' etc legalized because those drugs aint just a "fuck up yourself" system, they affect other people/communities & should remain banned.

[marty]

See I'm not a user myself but I do believe we should all have the right to fuck up our own lives if the risks are known like tobacco & just like tobacco we could tax da shit out of it people are gonna do it regardless might as well bring in some cash off it. thats my view on legalizing it anyways

you do have the right to do whatever you want. just be prepared to accept the consequences and stfu when they happen

[scissorhands]

So if I get batonned for a legitimate protest regarding a highly controversial subject, I'm not allowed to express myself?

Even when I trully believe in something that may have a majority vote?

[ellipsis]

...the really dangerous drug...love, has a lot to answer for in all facets of human behaviour...admittedly there may be some that show outwardly that they can handle this dangerous substance but, it will be forever to the detriment of society that any abuse of this drug be allowed to continue...a far safer option to this drug is 'like'...if more people actually admitted to liking, instead of loving, some of the more vexatious side affects of love abuse would be bypassed completely..

[Scuba_Steve]

you do have the right to do whatever you want. just be prepared to accept the consequences and stfu when they happen

do I? can you please tell others that then, start with the cops

[Usarka]

Cheech and Chong vs Star Wars

[scumdog]

do I? can you please tell others that then, start with the cops

Booh-riiing...

[HenryDorsetCase]

Just ask if they give or take head.

Now don't get me wrong - I have nothing against those whom have the occasional doob or 2. I was one of them. Its a wonderful plant.

I only have problems with people who feel the need to dedicate part of their life towards it, or have to go to places like the Daktory, or protest/parade around about it.

Its right up there with burning bra's and unions as far as I am concerned.

Mary J is a personal thing that should be concealed and smoked. Not heard.
Rubbing it in peoples faces is like wearing chapless leathers to a Honda Riders Club do.
After-wards you won't know what happened, you will feel proud for no reason at all, and your arse will hurt.

I'm all for burning unions....




yes, I'll say anything for a cheap joke.

[Berries]

Interesting thread. I was a heavy user for a number of years, and I mean proper heavy, not your social smoking. Held down a decent job, didn't kill anyone or rob anyone. Fairly respectable really. Moved on and eventually ended up in NZ, well known at the time as being one of the worst countries in the world for cannabis prosecutions. And what did I find ? The biggest nation of tokers I had ever seen. Haven't had a smoke for years, but right now with the wife and kids out of town I would give anything for big doobie instead of the red wine by my side.

Of course it should be legalised. As far as I am concerned there isn't even an argument to be entered in to. It causes no harm to others. In fact, the only harm it does cause is that you may have to meet some unsavoury characters to buy it. People say it leads on to other things. Bollocks.

Bill Hicks went further, saying it should be compulsory, but with my serious head on I am not too sure about that. What I am sure about is that the people who see it as a big scary destroyer of communities are so wrong. With any kind of narcotic some people will go too far and need to be reined in, but that is more due to the personality type rather than the drug of choice.

Frankly, I am amazed at the money that is spent worldwide trying to control illegal drug use, and the people killed in trying to control the supply. If all drugs were legalised not only could they be taxed but it would take out the very dodgy middlemen, improve the life of many third world people and, if supply was state controlled, could lead to proper education about the effects, rather than the BS that you hear via the media and on KB.

Now, where's my roach paper ?

I wish.

[Smifffy]

I wouldn't mind if it was legalised, on three conditions:

It remained lawful to either not employ, or to dismiss an employee who returned a positive drugs test, if workplace health and safety were at issue, eg operating heavy machinery.

In order to receive a benefit long term a regular clear drugs test is required.

It remains illegal to drive/ride under the influence.

Two of the three are just like alcohol laws, and I wouldn't mind adding alcohol to third.

I personally don't give a shit how much anyone wants to fuck themselves up in their own home or in their own time, but I don't want them endangering my life, and I sure as hell don't think I should be paying for it.

Legal sources of dope could possibly reduce the chance of youngsters getting shit that's laced with other harder stuff.

I think decriminalising the stuff will then impact on Kiwi's traveling freedoms, such as many of the current visa waiver programs that those of us without criminal convictions currently enjoy.

The shit appears to be that readily available that anyone over the age of about 18 that wants to partake of it, and can pay the going rate, can get as much as they want.

No doubt under 18s can get it easily enough too, but i'm thinking they probably need to know somebody.